chrome ball interview #76: todd congelliere

 Chops and Cubby go out for Icees. 

Introduction by Jeremy Klein

   

The first time I heard about Todd C, I was at Beryl School and some kids were talking about this guy doing all kinds of tricks on ramps that no one had ever done before. But then I didn’t hear about him for a few years after that until one day when I met him while taking product at World Industries. 

Somehow, we instantly became friends. Our love of horror movies and candy was enough, but then there was skating, too. 

I would be at his house everyday and he had a vert ramp there but it wasn't being skated. We would just go street skating. He'd talk about a trick that he wanted to do on vert, try it on a curb, and then instantly know how to do it on a 12-foot ramp the next day. It was incredible and really rad for me personally to see street-type tricks taken to vert like that... 

Not to mention, he was one of the few vert dudes to wear pants. 

Todd is one the best skaters of all-time. 

Jeremy Klein's Unseen Todd C Street Footage. So sick.

So Todd, this is almost cliché now but you really are seen as one of the first vert riders to have an obvious street influence in your tricks. Let’s face it, bigspin back 5-0s to fakie are a totally different animal compared to the almighty McTwist. Was this street direction a conscious decision on your part or was that just kinda how it worked out?

I think that approach was more of just how things naturally worked out for me back then. I was hanging out with mostly street skaters anyway. There weren’t very many people who were still riding vert at that point. Basically by the time I turned pro, in order to actually go skating with anybody, I had to go street skating.

The thing was that I didn’t enjoy street skating as much. And by skating street with people like Jeremy Klein, it also made it clear that I wasn’t very good at it.

I think I had more of a creative bone to pick. I was trying to bring something new to vert skating and I was using things that were accessible to me. I was seeing all of these new tricks going down on street and nobody had even thought to try them on vert yet.

So I started messing around with a few and once I actually pulled something off, I knew I should probably keep going in this direction. It was cool trying different things and making stuff up. Combining different tricks. It was all so much fun.

It actually got to a point where I was probably starting to take it too far. I remember coming up with this thing I called “the Congellarial”, which was an Indy Fastplant to Nosepick. It was a total joke trick that I used to do on curbs but I found myself doing them on vert… which was probably the dumbest thing ever. Once I actually did one, I felt so stupid. I mean I knew that nobody else had ever done it before but there was probably a reason for that. The whole thing was a total embarrassment and I definitely didn’t want word getting out about that one... but looking back on it, it really was just an example of that fun sense of creativity.

I realize street skating was still in its infancy back then but it was still so much more accessible than the lumber-intensive route of backyard ramps, right?

Ramps were just more fun. There’s something about transitions that I liked. Not even pool skating, it was wood transitions, specifically. I can’t even explain it but I’m sure tons of other people know what I’m talking about. There was no fear at all for me with Masonite and 2x4s. If I was going to try something on a handrail, that was a totally different experience. The fear was there. I knew something bad was going to happen. But I was comfortable and fearless on wooden transitions.

I skated street when I was younger but it was totally different compared to what it became. Back then, my friends and I would just roll down a hill on our asses and try to push each other over. We called it “Bash ‘em” and the guy who made it to the bottom without getting toppled over was declared the winner. That’s what street skating was to me.

When it started to evolve in those early Word Industries days, I thought it was so amazing but I already felt like I was too far behind. I’d be out there watching Jeremy or Mark Gonzales do these awesome things but I thought it was too late for me to learn. Even though I was only 16-years-old. There was just something in me that felt so awkward whenever I would really try to skate street. It didn’t speak to me the way vert did.

Was there ever a particular instance where you learned a trick on a 10-foot halfpipe that you couldn’t do on a curb?

I’d usually try them on my mini-ramp first but yes, a few things did go down like that.

It’s hard for me to remember trick names now but one trick that I definitely took that approach with were those “toothpick grinds”…

Fakie nosegrinds.

Yeah, I learned those on my mini-ramp and then on vert after not being able to initially do them on curbs.

I actually remember trying to do fakie 360 shove-its into those things on curbs and overshooting into fakie nose manuals… for about 5 seconds, I thought that it would be a good idea to try those on vert with the fakie nose manual part on the deck of the ramp! (laughs)

That was just a dumb idea. It’s probably not impossible, but at the time, I sure thought it was. But that turned into me trying to grind the coping instead of manualing and I even pulled off a couple of those. That’s definitely from a street idea.

“Oh, I can try this on vert and it will be much easier and way more fun!”

We talk about all these groundbreaking early tech tricks you were trying but your Liberty counterpart was a true old school great. Was Mike Smith a big influence on your skating growing up?

The thing with Mike Smith was that he was local. He lived in Hermosa and I lived in Torrance. I’d always see him in magazines and all of a sudden, he’s coming over to my ramp and we’re skating together. He played music, too, so he was right up my alley. So yeah, he was a big influence in that regard.

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you on Powell for a little bit prior to Liberty?

They were doing a “B-Team” kind of deal and I was trying to get on that for a bit. Chris Borst was trying to get me on there. It was one of those things where he kept promising to get me on but whenever I’d go stay with him in Bakersfield, he’d be with his girl and I’d feel super awkward and stupid. He’d be in there with a lady and I’m hanging around, trying to get on a skate team.

There actually was a session that I went to with some of the Powell dudes. I was gonna skate and hopefully get sponsored that day… until a young Danny Way showed up.

(laughs) Of all the people!

Yeah, he dropped in and immediately everyone there was like, “This kid is amazing!”

Here’s this wonderchild who’s like the second coming of Hawk and they’re not even looking in my general direction. I might as well not even been up there. Half of me couldn’t even believe all the shit this kid was doing while the other half was like, “Fuck you! Why are you doing this to me!?! Holy shit!”

It all worked out for the best, though. I grew to love Liberty way more than I ever did Powell, even though Liberty wasn’t anywhere near as successful. I always felt like Liberty was where I belonged.

How’d you end up riding for Liberty?

Liberty was presented to me by Mike Smith shortly after that session as, “Hey, if you’re not gonna be riding for this Powell thing, ride for me!”

That’s just how Mike works.

“Hey, you ride for me now. Okay? Cool. Here’s a board.”

It never felt official or anything. I was honestly never sure if I was really even sponsored half of the time. Even when I turned pro for him and had a board out, I still didn’t feel like I was really pro. It really wasn’t until I started getting into contests that it felt legit. I still don’t know how he got around to signing the entry forms for me but he did.

But sponsorship just worked naturally for me with Mike. I was never going to be Danny Way so I’m going to do this thing with my friend. In retrospect, I probably didn’t appreciate it as much as I should’ve until it was almost over.

What was the structure and inner workings like at Liberty? Was it just you and Mike?

(laughs) The structure of Liberty was that there was no structure whatsoever. It was a hair-brained idea at first and the next think we knew, it was really happening.

It was just me and him but we had distribution through World so that got us some promotion and a bit of the spotlight. My board was selling pretty well there for a while but then it got to the point where people stopped buying vert pros’ boards almost completely.

Was Rocco’s involvement just distribution? Did you have much interaction with him?

Rocco actually hated Liberty. It was this crazy situation. Mike and Steve had been friends for a long time but Rocco didn’t respect Mike whatsoever. That was obvious. I remember not being able to figure out why Mike would go talk to this dude everyday just to get abused like he did.

It eventually led to one day where Rocco tried to talk to me that same way and I flipped out on him. I’m not even sure what I said to him… I probably just told him to fuck off. But I didn’t care. I wasn’t friends with him the way Mike was and I wasn’t going to take that. I could sense he walked on eggshells around me after that day, being overly nice.

But yeah, Liberty was the red-headed stepchild of World Industries. Every time we would go in there, Mike would tell him about this idea… which most were admittedly pretty crazy, but Rocco would just laugh at him. He had this weird fucking laugh, too.

“You’ve got to be kidding me! Hey everybody, come in and listen to this stupid thing Mike wants to do! You gotta hear this!”

It was so embarrassing and terrible. All he had to do was be cool. We were selling boards and he was making money off of us. But Mike thought Rocco was our golden ticket or something so he put up with it. He’d already been putting up with it for years anyway.

It’s not that I didn’t respect Rocco, especially in retrospect with all he was able to do with that company. There was just some inner stuff there that was hard to swallow.

Liberty definitely had some amazing ads back in the day, though. Any personal favorites?

I always liked the one where we were fighting on top of that hill. Not really because of it being a stand-out but because it was an actual real-life situation. Mike and I would always get into these weird wrestling matches over ideas for the company. Not totally hurtful but we’d definitely get physical about shit. But those photos aren’t staged. That is actually us fighting and rolling down a hill. 

How did Liberty end up with a section in Rubbish Heap? Was that just a couple days with Spike?

That was about two hours with Spike. At least my part was. Mike shot his footage separately at another ramp and I filmed on my ramp so it’s basically two parts put together.

I don’t know how Liberty got in that video. It had to be Mike’s idea and he must’ve begged to get in there. I thought it’d be cool but I honestly didn’t think the video would be a big as it got. It was definitely good exposure, even if they spelled my name wrong. That was probably on purpose.

I know you were close with Jeremy Klein around this time. Any good stories come to mind from hanging out with that dude? Crank calls, perhaps?

Jeremy and I definitely did our share of crank phone calls back then. Our lives basically revolved around skateboarding, buying candy, and crank phone calls.

We crank called Gator once but I don’t even know if we should talk about that one cause it’s pretty sketchy…

Come on!

Okay, fuck it.

This is back when we used to go down to San Diego a lot and stay with friends. There was this one weekend where we went over to Tony Hawk’s house to skate his ramp and it happened to be during this weird point where Gator was going to possibly ride for Liberty.

Wow.

Yeah, it was weird. Actually, there was a point where Mike was trying to get both Gator and Josh Swindell to ride for Liberty. They both fell through, obviously.

Talent scouting!

Yeah, so this is back from before we found out that Gator wasn’t going to be riding for us. We didn’t know really what was going on with him at this point, but we ended up seeing him at Tony’s ramp. We weren’t the best of friends but I knew him well enough to go up and talk to him.

“Hey, are you going to ride for Liberty?”

“No, I skate for Jesus now.”

“Is that like a new company or something?”

(laughs) I guess it didn’t fully register what he said or maybe I thought he was joking but I honestly didn’t really know what he was talking about. He definitely took what I said as an insult, though. He started putting me down for the music I listen to… even though he used to listen to punk rock as well.

“You better ride for Jesus, too! You’re heading down a bad path!”

He’s obviously offended and at this point, I just want to get away from the guy.

“Okay, Gator. Let’s just skate, man.”

So it turns out to be the most super awkward session you can ever imagine. But all I can think about the whole time is that I totally know who our next victim will be when we go crank calling later on that night.

A few hours later, we go to crank call Gator but we end up getting his machine. I remember his outgoing message saying all this stuff about, “I can’t come to the phone right now. Praise the Lord, blah, blah blah…”

Whatever. The thing beeps and Jeremy and I, almost in unison, put on these evil-type voices:

“Hey Gator, this is Satan. I know what you’ve done!”

Keep in mind that we are saying this completely out of nowhere. We dumbfucks had no idea what was going on with him at the time… we had no idea he was about to go turn himself in for murder.

Oh my god.

No clue! I mean, why was he even skating!? He had just killed someone!

My memory is a little vague but I really think he turned himself in the next day. Jeremy thinks it was a little longer but regardless, it was so crazy. When I heard the news, I freaked the fuck out. Here we had left that message, totally not knowing about what was going on!

I’m even on this little expose that Hard Copy did about the whole thing! It has this voiceover like, “He was the world’s most rad skater with his entire life ahead of him…” while its showing all this classic Gator stuff.  

“And then one day…” and there’s a shot of me bailing!

I couldn’t believe it! How could I be connected this close? It freaked Jeremy and I out. We didn’t crank call anybody for a few days after that. We just hid and played video games.

Do you think your message is what made him turn himself in?

(laughs) Nah, I doubt it. But who knows! I’ve heard so many things… but that would be pretty fucking hilarious! If that kinda thing could ever be hilarious.

Absolutely insane. So moving on, how did the Icee Bear become your graphic alter-ego? Were you just in need of a rip-off graphic and that one fit?

It probably started out like that but I did used to always drink those. The place down the street had an Icee machine and I always loved that graphic on the cup.

I think it had something to do with a deadline. Everything would always sneak up on me. Mike’s like that where he’ll just come up and say, “Hey man, you’re pro now.”

“Oh, okay… Really? Shit!”

“Yeah, you gotta do a model. Get your graphics going. Let’s go!”

This would always be followed by Mike saying on the very next day, “Dude, it’s deadline. Where are your graphics?”

He’d never tell me about things until the very last minute and I’d always have to think of something real quick. I remember I originally wanted to use the sleepwalking bear that was on all those Travelodge commercials but that somehow ended up turning into the Icee Bear.

Such a classic board.

Yeah, I liked how it came out. Mark McKee always did great stuff. He always exaggerated everything you gave him with these really thick lines to where those rip-off things almost became like their own thing. They were so great. I mean, that first model was just a complete rip-off of the cup but by the time that second mug shot one came out, I remember thinking, “Hey, we’re not being total plagiarists! We’re only 90% plagiarists this time!”

The third one was Icee as the Rocco devil, right? How’d he take that with your guys’ relationship?

That was me being spiteful after our little blow-up or whatever. I heard he got pissed off about that graphic. He never said anything to me, though.

I remember my biggest concern was that I didn’t want him to take it as a form of flattery. I mean, he described himself as the devil so this was actually playing into his whole deal. But it worked, I liked it and he got pissed off.

How were you treated by the old vert guard as a new school pro for a Rocco affiliate? I imagine you got plenty of vibing, right? Anybody stand out as a real asshole?

Actually not at all and I totally expected that. Maybe being down with Mike Smith helped me through all of that. I always looked up to dudes like Jeff Grosso, Ben Schroeder and Jason Jessee and I ended up getting along with them really well.

I think it might’ve been my third or fourth pro contest and I hadn’t really met any of those guys yet but I remember them calling me out to the parking lot. I go out there and they’re all blasting my first FYP demo cassette out of their car. I was so stoked on that.

But yeah, I really felt like those dudes had my back. I was at this skate camp one time with Ben Schroeder really early on when I slammed on a trick and actually knocked myself out on the flatbottom. Blood was coming out of my nose and I just laid there unconscious.

While I was out, I remember having this dream where Tony Magnusson is skating around my body. I’m lying there in the middle of the flatbottom and he’s skating around me in a circle, doing grinds.

When I come to, I’d been carried off to my room and everyone’s now having this big meeting about how they all want to fuck up Tony Mag. Supposedly, when I was passed out, he was up on the platform complaining about me being hurt.

“Why doesn’t this kid move!?! My muscles are getting sore!”

As it turns out, he really was skating around me while I was knocked out. I guess he didn’t want his muscles getting cold.

Dick move.

Even now, I still think about what an asshole move that was. What if he bailed and shot his board into my head? I’m lying there completely unconscious.  

But yeah, this was early on, way before I might’ve deserved any sort of respect from those dudes but they had my back anyway. To this day, I still love those guys.

Always wondered as your career progressed, what kept you on Liberty? I have to imagine you got plenty of offers to go elsewhere, right?

Yeah, I got some offers but I guess I stayed with Liberty out of loyalty.  I liked Mike personally and I loved the company. I loved what it meant. Plus, I was always holding out because I thought things were gonna get better; both with Liberty and vert skating. I thought there was about to be this big vert explosion again... a lot of crazy dreams, I guess.

Do any of those offers stand out from back then?

Yeah, there were a few. Vision was interested at one point. Think wanted me to ride for them, too. Powell actually started talking to me again as well but I wasn’t interested in that anymore. Kinda stupid but it was basically out of pride since they wouldn’t give me the time of day back when I was right in front of them.

No Birdhouse?

I think by the time Birdhouse started, I was kinda over it. Jeremy would talk to me about it from time to time but I felt like we were better where we were at. Jeremy and I even talked about doing our own company at one point.

That would’ve been amazing.

Yeah, we talked about it but it never really got that far… basically just a pipe dream from some guys on a sugar high. It didn’t have a name or anything… mostly just, “That would be cool!”

But I don’t like playing the “what if” game. Starting a company back then just wasn’t feasible for us.

The stuff of legend: Didn’t you piss your pants in a pro contest run once?

Yes, I did. (laughs)

That was actually the same contest I mentioned before where those dudes were out front blasting the music. Those guys were so cool to do that and then I go out on the ramp and do that crap… they probably thought twice about playing my tape after that.

The thing about that day was, that contest was on my very last day of high school. I was just super stoked on everything! I remember thinking to myself throughout the whole day, “At 3 o’clock, my life starts!”

After school, I talk my friend into riding up to Visalia with me for the contest and we end up getting into this crazy car crash where we do a 540 on the freeway, rolling backwards full-speed into a ditch. It was so crazy but somehow, not only were we okay but the car was also perfectly fine! Not even a flat tire! So now we’re extra stoked! Not only is this the first day of my life, I also didn’t die in a wreck when I probably should’ve! The car’s okay… I’m gonna piss my pants in my run now!

(laughs)

That was my logic. I’m not exactly proud of that.

Too funny. So talk a bit about the Liberty Horror video. What all went into the making of that one? Was that Liberty’s big move to really go for it?

Liberty Horror was pretty much my own project. I had help from Spike and Jeremy but it was pretty much me. Basically, I love horror movies and I love skate videos so Horror was my attempt to combine them.

One thing about that video was that I had to literally sneak into World to use their editing equipment and hope Rocco didn’t walk into the room. It was a big deal if he caught me in there.

“Hey, you can’t be editing that movie here!”

I didn’t care, though. Let him catch me! I’m trying to promote our company to make him money! But people were really worried about him finding me in there.

“You don’t understand. He’s gonna get mad. He doesn’t want Liberty stuff in here!”

There was some strange thing going on between Rocco and Mike at the time. All of a sudden, Rocco didn’t want any Liberty stuff at World. It was weird.

But Mike really wanted to do a video. By then, Liberty was already pretty late in the game of putting out videos but we had to have a video to keep the company going.

“Okay then, well, instead of hiring someone and shelling out money for them to make it, why don’t I just make it?”

Anytime you could save Mike Smith money, he’d do it. So I basically took over the video early on. Horror was all my ideas. Mike never seemed that into it anyway. There were actually times I felt like he didn’t even want me to do it.

The mandatory thing for Liberty Horror was that it had to have more street skating in it than vert skating. Mike was obsessed with Liberty having street skaters at that point. I remember going to Mike’s house so he could check out footage and all he’d say is, “That’s not street skating. That’s you skating a ramp. Get some street skating in there.”

“Well… how about this guy getting killed? That’s cool, right?”

“Yeah, that’s awesome!”

(laughs) Did you do all the special effects yourself? The severed head looked amazing!

Yeah, that was the craziest thing ever. That was when I knew Mike was onboard for the video. Once he saw that scene, he was actually excited.

I forget where we got that head from, we must’ve had some kind of connection. But I remember walking into this room and it was full of different body parts lying around for movies. Severed hands, severed feet… all this stuff. We look around and in the corner, there’s this head. Mike just starts screaming, “Oh my God! This is you!” 

I don’t know how it happened but there was this severed head that looked exactly like me… if I got my head cut off. And I still think that particular scene is actually scary. We proved a point with that one.

What’s the story on Fred Brown?

I forget what the title was but Mike had this Hawaiian book with this character in it by the name of Fred Brown. I remember him bringing it up to me one day and he was so excited.

 “Look! We have an entire book full of graphics right here!”

“Well, we can’t do a ton of boards like this… maybe one.”

I’m telling you, it was such a struggle for us to get a street skater to help the sinking Liberty vert dinosaur company. We felt like we needed a street skater so bad but it just wasn’t working out. Fred Brown was Mike’s amazing idea to solve all those problems.

“This is Fred Brown from the Philippines! He’ll be our new street pro! Nobody will know who he is but we’ll say he’s really good! You can ask Jeremy to film a part with a wig on! He can be this amazing street skater but he’s a total mystery!”

I didn’t see it at the time but Fred Brown was one of Mike’s best ideas. It really is genius. And not only was Mike excited about now having a street pro, he was also stoked on not having to pay him.

“No $2 a board! He’s not real!”

That video part was kinda crazy because Jeremy didn’t really go full-throttle in it. He was just doing normal shit. Mike was expecting his full Jeremy Klein shit but in a wig. It didn’t work out that way.

Still one of my favorites. But speaking of full-throttle, how did that Union video part go down? Were you just taking the piss out of street skating?

Is that the one where I’m trying the noseslide-tailslide?

Yeah.

That was just how it was edited. The way it worked out with those Santa Cruz wheel videos, they always wanted you to do street. They knew I did both… even though I usually just went for comedy with street stuff.

Basically, I couldn’t pull that trick. I was really trying and I’d done it before but I just couldn’t get it that day and was being goofy. The thing was, I knew street was more popular by that time but I didn’t care. I honestly tried a few times to talk them out of having any street footage of me in there at all but they really wanted it.

I remember filming with this guy who I’d just met that day and telling him from the start, “This is going to be easy for you because I’m not going to do much. It’s not going to be impressive.”

I reiterated this over the course of the day but he’d always reply like, “No, this is working out great. Just keep skating!”

“How is this working out great? I can’t pull anything!”

Next thing I know, the video comes out and I’m just like, “Oh, so that’s what he meant by ‘working out great.’”

Honestly, I was starting to get a little bitter about the popularity of street skating over vert by this point, too.

You weren’t one of those vert guys considering a street transfer for the sake of career?

I never thought for one minute that anybody might take me seriously skating street. And honestly, if it would’ve came down to that, I told myself that I was going to quit because to me, it was the equivalent of selling out. I know that’s stupid but that’s the way I felt about it. I saw a bunch of skaters trying it all of a sudden and I thought they were sell-outs.

“What are you doing? Just wait it out. Still have fun!”

I love skating vert and that’s why I was sponsored and had a pro model. I’m okay at it. I’m not good with street at all. It’s fun that’s not who I am.

So what happened with you and Liberty? How did you end up on Milk?

It really comes back to trying to find a street skater for Liberty. Vert skaters’ boards just weren’t selling and without a street skater, Liberty wasn’t going to succeed.

Mike ended up finding this kid out in East LA, I honestly can’t remember his name, but at the time, I sorta felt like he dumped me for this kid. I remember they’d gone somewhere on a skate trip together, maybe to a contest or something, but they didn’t say anything to me about it. Shortly after that, Mike just stopped returning my phone calls. It was never really talked about but all of a sudden, I felt like I was out. It was so confusing.

It hurt though because I was loyal to him that entire time and now he’s doing something else and not calling me back. Betrayal is a strong word but that’s how I felt. I could see how this was going so I quit and went to Milk, something I hated doing but I felt there was still some life left in me.

Mike and I still talk to this day but it got a little weird back then.

Milk was weird. It didn’t feel right and I always felt totally out of place. At first, it was going to be alright because both Ron Chatman and Hosoi were going to be on the team. That sounded pretty good. It was Chatty who actually got me on there. But for whatever reason, the company didn’t end up getting started for a while and the next thing I know, Hosoi is no longer involved and Ron had gone to another company. I was fucking pissed. The owner was super cool but when my board finally came out, it just felt wrong.

The whole scenario turned me off from skateboarding. I hated going on trips with those guys and I just didn’t like being around it anymore. At the same time, my parents lost their house, which also meant that my ramp had to be torn down. The writing was on the wall.

I went on this European trip where I was supposed to do 12 demos and 3 contests; I didn’t do any of them. The guy I was with had sold all of my pro boards that I was supposed to be selling for tour support and was refusing to give me any of the money... that was it. I just bailed.

“I’m done. Don’t worry about paying me. I don’t really have to do this.”

Everyone was trying to hustle so much back then, especially vert skaters. It was like rats fighting over a piece of cheese. It was sad. Not being professional anymore wasn’t a sad thing for me at all. It would’ve been sadder had I kept on trying to do it. I can still skate and that’s all I care about. I had more fun skating before all this other stuff started anyway.

Do you think if you had a different sponsor at the time, you would’ve had the proper support to stay with skateboarding?

It probably would’ve made a difference. I was fine not being on Liberty anymore but I wasn’t okay being on a team that I wasn’t comfortable on and still not making money.

It’s hard to answer because at the same time, it could’ve made it worse. I used to see these guys that I really respected at contests and they always seemed to be whining about money but they were making way more than I ever was. They just sounded like a bunch of spoiled brats. Here they’re complaining about making over 100 grand a year and they’re skateboarding for a living. I felt embarrassed about the whole thing: embarrassed for them for complaining like that and embarrassed for myself for making so little in comparison. It was all so strange.

The whole situation seemed like a sign telling me to go on with my life.

Have to wonder, did any of your experience on the business side of things with Liberty inform your future role with Recess Records?

Oh yeah, for sure. I definitely put out records the same way Mike put out boards. I know exactly how much effort is involved to get a release out just like how he knew what it took to put a board out.

Everything is hands-on. I remember going with Mike over to the artist’s house and taking art over to the printer before hitting up Screaming Squeegees for boards. He did everything. And there was never a release date, it was whenever the manufacturer was done with the stuff.

That is a big reason why I never sweated being paid by Mike as I saw that I was learning how to do business… even though he is definitely a weird guy to learn business economics from, there were lessons there to learn. He didn’t want certain people to touch Liberty and I’m the same way with Recess. It’s like you only want certain people handling your baby, even if it’s slower or you look like a big flake.

Well put. So wrapping this up, does it trip you out on how many people still bring up your skating after all these years?

Definitely. I honestly didn’t think anybody really appreciated it that much as it was happening, let alone all this time later. I think there’s been a type of renaissance with a lot of people but for me, I can’t really explain it. I always figured you had to have some type of clout to get that status. But it’s cool. I like hearing people talk about doing certain tricks back then. That’s always good to hear.

…But no one has ever done a Congellariel still to this day!

(laughs) We’re gonna have to run a Trick Tip for it in this.

I’d break my back trying to do that stupid thing.

Big thanks to Jeremy Klein for the intro and footy 

...and to Todd for taking the time. 

 

chrome ball incident #907: it's mine, so what

Following the DeathWish video, I figure there's no better time than the present to revisit this dude.

Some 90's goodies featuring a rare interview conducted by none other than Steve Rocco.

One of my own favorite interview subjects as well, Jeremy Klein.

And this part should always live on. Still incredible 23 years later.

In other news, forgot to link to this part the other day. Sorry Jacob.

chrome ball incident #799: mizake the mizan

"Always candy." -Jeremy Klein

This post was in no small part inspired by this.

Definitely one of my favorite interview subjects over the course of doing this site. Such a rad dude who really challenged a lot of the ways I thought about skateboarding up until that point. Respect.

...and the announcer here is pretty incredible, too. 

Alright party people, I'm conducting an interview tonight and starting a new job on Friday so that's a wrap for this week. Wish me luck.

The Chrome Ball Incident's 800th post (!!!) will be Monday.

chrome ball interview #37: jeremy klein

chrome ball and klein sit down for conversation.

Alright Jeremy, all these interviews start out this way: how were you first introduced to skateboarding and what was your first board?

I was always messing around with skateboards when I was younger. Someone had given me one of those shitty plastic boards and I used to let my dog pull me around on it. Stuff like that. But it was the Powell videos that really introduced me to it. All the kids at school were watching the Bones Brigade Video Show and I ended up seeing it and thinking it was the best thing ever. My first board was a Mark Gonzales.

What was it like growing up in the South Bay? Seems like there was a lot of fresh talent around there back in the day.

You’re probably thinking about when people like Daewon and Eric Ricks were popping up but that wasn’t until a little later on. There was really no one skating around when I first started except for me and my friends. This was back when everybody hated skating…. especially in school. At least at my school. There was nobody that skated.

But it was exciting that I was doing something that I liked and my Mom actually supported it… although she didn’t support my ditching 95 days of school in a row to do it. She didn’t like that at all. But she did buy me skateboards and stuff. I definitely lucked out on that one.

Would you ever see Rocco out at the Redondo Beach pier?

I actually started hanging around Rocco down there which is pretty much how I got sponsored. Before that, I was trying to get on Powell for like 2 years but they wouldn’t accept me for some reason. I was doing okay in contests at the time so I probably could’ve got sponsored by some awful company like Toxic or something but I really wanted to get on Powell. They’d send me boards every few months but I was never really on the team.

It’s hard to imagine you falling in line with Powell’s rigid Rules of Conduct back then…

Yeah, it probably would’ve never worked out. I’m sure that Rocco ended up working out much better. He was clearly the way to go. He always seemed to know exactly what he was doing while all those other companies were just following.

That’s one thing that I’d like to say about the industry now is that not having Rocco involved for however long it’s been… too long. It’s just not exciting. As far as I’m concerned, the industry is full of sporting goods companies now. It’s so mainstream. Back then, we were just skaters and liked doing what we wanted to do. Skateboarders are more like athletes now.

Very true. Was it obvious to you from the start that what Rocco was doing was important? Could you have predicted the company would blow up like it did?

I was too young and dumb to really know what all was going on but I definitely knew he was doing the right thing. I knew he was making a huge impact and all these dumb companies were pissed about it. I loved that. I respect anybody that does what they want without caring what anybody else thinks. I do think, in a way, he actually had to do some of that stuff… but at the same time, he was really doing something great.

You and Ron were really some of the first “super-ams” back in the day, actually receiving more push from World than a lot of pros did. Did you know what Rocco’s thinking was behind this? Was he was pushing you guys since Harts and Jess the Mess were maybe getting phased out?

I think it was more about sensing pressure from other companies. You saw companies like H-Street turning people pro... a lot of people said they were turning skaters pro too quickly but that’s where the industry was at the time.

We were going to these dumb amateur contests all the time and always placing high. It was becoming monotonous so Rocco told us to enter this pro contest in Del Mar, which was a real disaster for me. I thought I was ready because everyone was telling me that I was ready. But once I got out there and I’m skating the same course as Steve Caballero and Tony Hawk, I felt ridiculous. I’m standing there with all these fucking pads they make you wear even though it’s a fucking pro contest… I felt awful and I hated it. It wasn’t fun. I was over contests altogether from then on.

But being pro was a lot different back then…

It’s funny because back then, to be a pro, a lot of guys would try to play off this thing like, “Okay, I’m a street skater. I’m a street pro. But check this out: here I am on a mini-ramp doing a backside disaster! And here I am now on a vert ramp and I can do rock-n-rolls!”

From terrorizing Spike in Hawaiian hotel rooms to infamous phony phone calls, you and Ron were pretty notorious pranksters back in the day. Didn’t you guys have something going with H-Street at one point?

We used to fuck with the H-Street guys a lot but that was more of a friendly rivalry kind of thing. Even before Plan B, Rocco and Mike Ternasky would always hang together at contests and shit. I remember Mike always used to call Ron Chatman “Big Times”. But it was always friendly. Minor things, mostly.

I remember when they just finished their Hokus Pokus video. It wasn’t even out yet but somehow we ended up over at Dave Andrecht’s house because they really wanted to show it to us. We purposefully started acting like we weren’t even watching it. Just to be dicks.

But yeah, the big thing for Ron and I was prank calling people. Mark Gonzales would sometimes be in on this, too. For some reason, Ron had everybody’s phone number… he was friends with everybody. Vert guys. Street guys. Scary guys. Everybody. And on top of that, Ron also had this really great Swatch phone that had two receivers which allowed two people to listen and talk on one end. Basically, we could do dual prank calls with it.

This was a long time ago but the main thing we would do was call a guy… like Steve Saiz or something, and be like, “Hey Steve, what’s up!? Hold one second, dude.” And while Steve was on hold, we’d call a guy like Tom Knox, who probably doesn’t know Steve Saiz or want to talk to him. But right whenever Tom would pick up, we’d click them both over and listen with our side muted. They’d have no idea what was going on. Sometimes they’d talk shit to each other but sometimes they wouldn’t say anything at all so you’d have to un-mute your side and say something into the phone like, “Fuck you!” and then mute it again while they’ll both be like, “Hey, who said that?” That’s when they usually both start talking shit to each other while you listen in. That was fun back then.

Where did the “Focus” come from? Is it really a Karate Kid reference?

I’m not sure about the Karate Kid thing. I didn’t make it up but when I saw it, I thought it was the greatest thing ever.

…Actually, now that I think about it, it was Spike that showed it to me. He couldn’t do it at first and I remember him telling me, “You gotta focus like you’re going to go right through to the cement. You gotta focus.”

Which leads us to Rubbish Heap. What was it like filming for that thing with Spike? Was all that filmed over a couple of days?

I have a bad memory so I’m not totally sure. I know that it wasn’t years of filming like how videos are made now. The thing I remember most is that Spike had this weird idea… maybe it’s true, but he wouldn’t let us watch our footage because he thought it degraded the quality. This was back when we filmed with Hi-8 and I remember being so angry about that.

It was fucked up. We didn’t get to see our footage until the actual day of editing so we didn’t know what to expect. And it wasn’t like we were even working on tricks for our parts. We would just go skating and try things. We’d maybe try something four times or so before moving on to something else. With the exception of a few things, we really didn’t get to try things all that much.

But it is a classic. The backside smith down the handrail was only one of many firsts in that thing. Overall, were you pleased with how the part turned out?

I liked it. I don’t think I was as super-critical back then but I thought it came out okay. The whole video was good because it’s just raw skateboarding.

Who’s idea was it to use the Duck Tales song?

That was my idea. I don’t think they really wanted that in there. But it was just a game that I liked so I thought I’d stick it in there at the beginning. It was hard figuring out a way to record that song back then.

Had you known Spike for very long at this point? It seemed like you two were rolling pretty thick after all that. Did you have any idea that he had all these brilliant concepts floating around in his head? That he’d go on to become this big director?

Not at all. He was usually just shooting photos back then. He was always hanging out over at World so we just started skating together and messing around. But I had no idea he’d end up doing all this crazy shit.

Another one full of surprises: Todd Congelliere. One of the world’s best vert skaters who just upped and quit right as he was starting to blow-up. Did you you know he was gonna burn-out like he did?

No, I didn’t see that coming… but I completely agree with you that he was fucking awesome. He was basically a street skater on vert. And super consistent.

I used to be at his house every single night… hanging out and watching horror movies. Such a great guy. We’d go street skating for a few hours and then go to the grocery store and buy bags of candy… make fun of the New Kids on the Block in all the magazines before going back to his place to watch more shitty horror movies. We did that for years.

But he was one of my favorite vert skaters, for sure. If he would’ve stuck with it, he’d be doing the craziest shit by now. He’d probably be doing big spins on that super ramp railslide thing.

Anything he tried, he did. We’d go street skating and he’d be like, “Yeah, I want to learn big spins to tailslides.” You’d see him do it on a curb and then he’d be doing it on his ramp the next day. It was awesome. He’d do it first on his mini ramp and then take it to vert. Crazy.

Was it difficult for as a World rider as Rocco would bring in more and more new riders so frequently?

Yeah, it was actually. But if I was a little smarter, I could’ve done better over there. I always had a shitty outlook. But it was only a little over a year or so after I turned pro that I left. And everybody had left before me, like Mark and Ron.

It did seem like most of the early riders left around the same time. Was there ever talk of dissatisfaction between you guys around this time? When did you start to think about leaving?

Mark and Ron used to talk shit at the time but I didn’t really have any other place to go. None of us had contracts anyway so whenever we wanted to be done, we could just leave. I wasn’t even thinking about the next thing until Tony contacted me. I actually remember when I told Rocco that I was quitting World, his only response was to kick me off the team… which is pretty funny to tell somebody. If somebody is quitting their job, you can’t fire them at that point. I remember just thinking to myself, “I know… I’m quitting.” Pretty funny.

But it sucked because I really liked and respected Rocco. I wish it wouldn’t have gone down the way it did. His ideas were so awesome.

Was it weird starting Birdhouse with Tony, Powell’s golden child? And was there any fear on your part of possible retaliation from Rocco?

Wow… I didn’t have to deal with any of that, huh? That’s kinda weird. I wonder why not? Kinda bums me out that they didn’t do anything. Maybe because I was just a nobody so it didn’t matter. But no, I wasn’t worried… but looking back on it, I definitely should’ve been.

Tony leaving Powell did seem like a big deal but technically, I don’t think it meant all that much to them because they were so anti-vert back then. I don’t think they were really making all that much money off Tony at that time. Not the kind of money they were used to making years before.

I just remember talking to Tony about it one day. I used to skate with him every once in a while so he had my number. He called me up and told me about this new company and how he was going to talk to Willy and Berra. I said that I’d do it and that was it. That’s when we all really started hanging out more at Tony’s.

Yeah, there definitely seemed to be a real family vibe back then. All of you guys at Tony’s like that…

Berra actually started living there which was fucking funny. He’d get in fights all the time with Tony’s then-wife. Here you have a guy that’s staying at your house for free and he’s fighting with your wife… I love Berra. That’s hilarious.

But yeah, we just hung out there everyday, skating and filming for this video and it just went on from there.

I’ve always loved those early Feasters and Ravers videos. Super homemade and a lot of fun. I always dug your parts as well as you largely ignored the trends of that time by wearing fitting clothes and keeping your skating clean, without any of that crazy late/pressure bullshit. What made you stick to your guns?

That’s a good question and I like that question. There’s two answers for it. One answer is that I fucking hate that shit. The other answer is that I can’t do nor do I ever want to do that shit. Those are the answers. That pressure flip shit is ugly and it’s stupid.

Actually, I do a fucking nollie flip in one… which is funny cause I don’t do nollie flips. I don’t like them. But that was the closest I ever got to doing that stuff. Well, there’s probably a few other things in there but that’s what sticks out in my mind is that fucking nollie flip. That was the only one I ever did and I’ll never do another one.

So where did the idea for Hook-Ups come from? What made you decide to go with an all Japanese animation-based art direction? What’s your role over there these days anyway?

I was just really into that stuff at the time. I really liked that artwork. When I first started seeing it, I remember thinking that there wasn’t enough of that going around. At first, I only wanted to have some shirts with these graphics on it. Nobody was really making things like that so I wanted to make some. Birdhouse was small then and I‘d just gotten a computer... I really wanted to do my own shit and they let me so that’s why.

My role always been the same. I do all the art direction and some of the logo-type stuff. I don’t do any of the drawings… unless it’s like a cat flipping you off or something like that. I’m not that good at drawing.

The brand has had its devotees as well as critics over the years. What is your response to those people that like to take away from Hook-Ups, characterizing it as something less of a skateboard company? That it’s some sort of gimmick?

I didn’t really know that, to be honest. I just thought there were people who knew what it was and collected the stuff but I didn’t know that there were people against it. That’s kinda awesome. My response to them is that I don’t really care. I don’t care what anybody thinks. So that’s my response.

My whole thing is that I love skateboarding and love making skateboards. I no longer ride for a company, I haven’t for five or six years, but I still love to skate. I’m 40 years-old now and will never stop skating.

Speaking of which, I don’t like to read a lot of the stuff on the internet because I think that if you read too much, you obviously go crazy but sometimes people email me questions like: “What the fuck happened to you, dude? Why can’t you do all that stuff anymore?”

Fuck you! I’m 40! It’s called “aging”, dude! What the fuck?! I was 18 when I did all that!

Happens to the best of us. Now throughout the course of your career, you will always be seen as one of the masters of the Beryl Banks. What personally stands out as the gnarliest thing you ever saw go down there? And I’ll even let you claim something that you did there if you want, you’ve earned it…

Oh, I’d never say that.

But people always talk about the big bank there but the little bank with the curb on top is actually way harder to skate. Has anybody done a backside noseblunt on that thing yet?

I’m pretty sure Austyn Gillete did one not too long ago. He’s pro for Habitat.

That’s awesome. I’m a little bit out of it when it comes to these new guys but that’s really good. That’s gotta be one of the hardest things you can do on there.

I remember people doing nollie shit on the big bank, which is definitely hard… but one of the craziest things I saw there was Geoff Rowley going full speed up the flat part that nobody skated and doing a drifting heelflip to fakie. That was probably the gnarliest thing I remember.

Which part is that?

It wasn’t the big round bank and it wasn’t the part with the curb on top, it was in-between the corner where you can do a transfer and the big round bank. It’s this weird flat part of the bank that was just shit. I mean, the whole thing is shit but nobody skated that part. That was awesome.

So how did you and Heath come up with such crazy concepts for The End? I know Berra was involved initially… was this just something that kept snowballing? A jump ramp part in 1998 is pretty insane.

The crazy thing about that part is that we didn’t have permits for about 90-95% of it. The only time we got a permit for was the pier shoot and maybe one or two other things. None of the skating was with a permit. Like when we destroyed that school, that wasn’t permitted. We just did it.

You guys would just pull up to Blockbuster, get out the ramp and skate their sign without checking with them?

Oh no, we didn’t check with anybody because that’s when people start giving you reasons why you can’t skate there.

If you look closely, all that stuff we skated has covers on it. Not that we cared about damaging the signs or anything, it was because that shit didn’t slide or grind. We’d go to each spot that we wanted to skate for this, get the dimensions of the sign and go back to Birdhouse to construct sign covers.

You can obviously tell covers are on there but we had to build that stuff because the signs just didn’t grind. One of the first things we tried to skate was that hump-type sign and without anything on it, you ended up denting the metal. You just stuck. And when you’re up that high, it really sucks to stick.

I do remember the first night we went filming, it fucking sucked. We really didn’t know what we had gotten ourselves into. It was so shitty. We thought we’d wasted all this money with these thousand-dollar suits and all this crap.

How did you guys come up with all that shit?

It was seriously from Heath and I sitting at his house, playing Crash Bandicoot and watching fucking Jerry Springer. We would sit there and say all this ridiculous shit… like, “Okay, then we light ourselves on fire and jump off a pier.” Never thinking that we’d actually have to do it. But there we were, putting on this long underwear with all this gel over it and they’re lighting us up. It’s crazy.

So you were saying that you would just show up at those signs and go for it… would they ever call the cops?

It was funny, right in the middle of when we were skating the Blockbuster sign, a fire truck pulled up at a stop light and just sat there. Totally watching us. We both stopped skating and were wondering what was gonna happen next when we hear this little guy’s voice come from over the truck’s intercom, “Go for it.”

That was it. I don’t remember having much trouble because when you have lights and a generator, at least back then, it worked. People thought we were legit.

How was it filming that Millionaire’s Club bit? Did those pornstars have a good sense of humor about the whole thing?

It sucked making that thing. Those girls were the biggest bitches in the world. You’d think a chick that takes a load on her face for a grand would be happy to hang out with some shitty guy in a jacuzzi. I can’t even imagine how they’d be after you came on their faces.

You’d think just hanging out and watching you play video games would be easy money.

That’s what I mean. It was probably the most legit shit those whores had ever done. Here we are legitimizing them with our little skate video. Like there’s that scene the Spanish girl is putting my skateboard together for me... she was the only one still there at that point. The other ones had fucking left.

Now Destroying America was really just an extension of all this mayhem, taken to new heights with Erik Estrada in tow. What was the most dangerous or closest call during the filming of that?

There weren’t that many dangerous calls actually… but you did get burned almost everyday. When you’re setting fires on the dashboard of a car, you have to remember that the ceiling is plastic. When that gets hot, you have strips of hot plastic dripping down on your hands. Little burns. They’re not that bad but getting burned does suck.

Out of all that stuff, what have you found to be your personal favorite unorthodox method of tour van utility?

The best use of the van as far as I’m concerned was using it as an obstacle on tour. We used to do demos all across the United States with that thing. You can grind on top of it or do tricks over it… we were basically showing up with our own obstacles. People seemed to have a good time at those demos.

Yeah, I remember seeing those articles. Such a cool idea… and really different to see. I wonder why nobody else has tried to do anything like that? Makes perfect sense.

I completely agree with you. We had cool skaters on those tours, too: Grecs, Geoff, Heath… Mark, Dan Rogers, went out with us. We had awesome skaters on there.

What was skating with Heath like back then? Were you guys very close or more pulled together by having the same sponsors?

We were hanging out pretty much everyday for like four years or so. Pretty close in that sense. Skating was always fun because we’d just go skate curbs. Curbs are fun to skate. It’s no fun to skate a rail.

When was the last time you talked to him? Have you seen where he retired and biked cross-country?

Oh yeah. We actually went to Matt Ball’s wedding together about a year or so ago… we hung out there.

Now it seemed like you kinda cooled out after Destroying America. You still had a board out but got away from the spotlight a bit. What was it that prompted your decision to retire your board?

What made me retire my board was because Birdhouse made me. I would’ve liked to have kept it going. I love skating and I love having a board out with cool graphics on it. But Birdhouse was being sold at the time and there were some weird things going on over there. I just stopped working for them which is pretty much why that all happened.

I wanted to retire because I kinda already was retired. I’d only have a board come out maybe once or twice a year. I saw it as like riding for Lucero’s Emergency or how Element puts out old guy boards from time to time. Something like that. That’s how I was treating it. Redoing my old graphics and putting those out. I wasn’t coming out with 3 boards a catalog like the newer guys.

What do you say to those critics that say you that maybe should’ve retired sooner?

I’m fine with that. They are probably right for feeling that way.

Birdhouse ran that thing announcing your retirement with the reissue of your very first Birdhouse graphic...

Yeah, that’s what they did. I figured I was retired around 2000. I retired a long time ago. But like I said, I’m a 40-year-old man and I love skateboarding. I don’t care if anybody has a problem with that. Skateboarding is fun.

Well said. So what are you doing now, Jeremy? You said you’re still skating and doing your thing with Hook-Ups. I’ve even seen you doing some stuff with Tom Green.

I’m still doing pretty much the same thing that I’ve always done. I skateboard, I play video games and do Tom’s show sometimes. He’s a friend and we hang out sometimes. He loves skateboarding, too.

But yeah, still doing my company and having a good time with that. One of my best friends owns a small video game company that makes video games for mobile devices so I get to help design games and do some of the graphics. It can be a huge pain in the ass but I love it.

Skateboarding is such a different animal than it was in the heyday of Rocco. What’s your take on skateboarding in 2011?

Skateboarding seems like it’s less of a way of life now. It’s more of a sport. It’s taken a lot more seriously now than it was in the 90’s which has it’s good and bad points.

But here’s the thing: if a pro skateboarder is able to make a bunch of money from it, I’m totally cool with it. I’m saying this because skateboarders usually don’t make a lot of money and once you don’t skate anymore, you’re kinda fucked. If it’s giving money to actual real skateboarders then I can’t say anything bad about that. If I had the opportunity to make a million dollars back then, I’m sure I would’ve been excited about that.

Skateboarding was just so much different back when I was on World because we didn’t make much money and what money you did make was based on what you actually sold. There were no minimums… we didn’t even have contracts. You sell 3,000 skateboards one month, you get a check for $6,000. The next month, the company doesn’t have any of your boards in and you make less money. That sucks. But when you didn’t have any money to begin with, any bit that you get makes you happy.

Just a few quick ones at the end here:

Your part in Rubbish Heap or The End?

The End.

Nosepick or Footplant?

Nosepicks. They’re easier.

Candy or Japanese Animation?

Always candy.

Alright Jeremy, thanks so much for doing this. Anything else you’d like to add? Any parting words of wisdom for us?

My words of wisdom, for anybody that actually cares, is to just do whatever you want to do and if anybody talks shit, tell them to fuck off.