chrome ball interview #84: jerry hsu

chops sits down with jerry for some conversation.

So how’s your Made 2 part coming along, Jerry? 

I feel like it’s going pretty good. I’m skating a lot. It actually feels really good just to have a project to work on again. After you’ve been skating a while, it definitely helps to have a goal in order to push yourself and get into a routine. 

When you’re younger, you’re just naturally going out and skating. You don’t even need a project. You’re always building up footage anyway so when a video does finally come along, it’s just like, “Here you go.” 

This one’s a little different for me as I’m working towards a goal... so many goals inside my mind that drive me crazy. Stay Gold was like that, too, but I was a mess. I need more rest these days. It’s hard but at the same time, it’s really rewarding because tricks just seem harder to do now. It’s much more rewarding to actually get them on film. 

Our deadline is at the end of the year but those are always pretty tentative.

How does Emerica go about choosing which riders are going to be featured? Like, did you know while they were out making Made 1 that you were up next? 

It’s funny because no, we didn’t know. The only reason Made 1 even happened was because Westgate and Leo kept on filming after Stay Gold finished. They just kept on building more footage to where Miner basically decided to make another video with those guys. It’s not like we all got together and decided to make this series of videos. But when Made came out with the name Volume 1, it became pretty obvious how this was going to play out. 

“Oh… I guess we’re all gonna have to be in Volume 2 then, right?” (laughs) 

They didn’t exactly ask us but I’m fine with it. I’m just happy to have a project to work on. 

I have to imagine as a close friend that Spanky’s resurgence has been amazing to see firsthand. When did you start to realize how serious Kevin was taking all of this? 

Spanky is my best friend. I skate with him everyday so I’ve watched this whole thing go down; from being at the top, falling to the bottom and back again. I’ve been there throughout this entire thing and it really has been inspiring.  When he lost his sponsors, especially Baker, that was definitely a difficult thing to have happen but he was never bitter about any of it. He was always thankful to skateboarding for what it had given him. He understood that what had happened was his fault and that he needed to change. A lot of people don’t take that news so gracefully. 

Not at all. 

Yeah, but he knew that he had to change his life and he did so. He decided to get serious about skating again because he still loves it and that’s what he wants to do. He started trying to figure out what to do, looking at other possible sponsors. He’d ask me if he should ride for this or that company and I really didn’t know what to say. He was discovering skateboarding again and that was rad to see but now money was also an issue. 

That’s when things get real. 

I don’t think he really wanted to ride for anyone but Baker. I was trying to get him to call other people but I’m glad he didn’t listen to me.

But it’s crazy how his skating just came back immediately. At the time, I was starting to go out with Andrew and Herman for the video and Spanky was coming along with us. He was ripping! Miner was always happy to film him and after about 6 months or so, he just had all this stuff. It just became clear to everyone that Spanky was back. 

It became this thing where Andrew recognized what Spanky was doing and if he kept on this path, he’d get his board back. Andrew talked to me about it a little and he wanted to keep it between us… which was really hard for me not to tell Spanky. He was already skating so well but I just had to let it happen. I do think Andrew kinda hinted to him at one point a little later and that’s when he really started turning it on. As soon as he realized there was a possibility of getting his board back on Baker, it was on for him. That's a pretty rare thing to have happen.

I’m super proud of him. He had taken such a hit to his ego but stayed humble and did the work to get it all back. He never complained, ever. And for him to work so hard and come back is also like a gift for us because we all really love him and want him around. Having him part of this project makes me very thankful.

photo: colen

Super good, man. So are there going to be any concepts again for your part this time? Another all switch part perhaps? Or will it just be full-on Jerry for Made 2?

I guess Made 2 is going to be full-on me? My part is gonna be pretty different because I can’t really skate things like drops, handrails and gaps the way I used to. That type of stuff is going to be pretty minimal. I think there’s going to be a lot more lines this time… a lot of schoolyards, banks and ditches. I’ve had to adjust the way I skate. I’ve started to look at my environment and my targets differently. 

The thing is that if I still skated the way I used to, I’d probably only have 5 tricks in the video. If I go out and skate a double-set today, I’ll basically be in pain for the next week. Then I’ll have to work my way back up from there only to get wrecked again. It’s just ridiculous. 

Andrew echoed the same thing in his interview as well. 

It’s kinda cool to evolve, actually. You don’t want to be doing the same thing forever. Having to use your mind and imagination again is awesome. The handicap is actually healthy because it helps you grow as a skater. Personally, I feel like learning how to skate other stuff than what I’m used to has been really rewarding for me. 

photo: whiteley

So much has always been made of your slams over the years. Has that started to weigh on your mind as you’ve gotten older? Why do you think people like watching you hurt yourself, Jerry?

I feel like it’s always been a bit sensationalized. It’s this thing where I’ll go for something and if I slam, it just looks so terrible and sometimes it is. Some people love seeing that stuff and some people don’t but I understand that it mixes it up. It’s an exciting thing to put in a video. 

With my Stay Gold part, I didn’t really have that much footage. Miner made the choice to edit it the way he did, which I feel really sensationalized how much work I put into it. I think some people do like that aspect of it, that it shows how hard skateboarding can be. That’s what people tell me anyway… that we all get back up and try again. 

I think it shows both a work ethic as well as humanizes you as a pro. I realize that nobody is really enjoys watching their own parts but is that Stay Gold one a hard one for you to watch, in particular? 

I just don’t really like watching it because it’s me. Pro skaters are the most insecure people in the world. They constantly need reassurance. Is this cool? Did I do that okay? Should I do this again? Filmers and photographers seriously have to deal with so much insecure skater crap. 

“Yes, it’s fine. You’re good.”

But I will say that if you’re known for something like slamming, it does kinda make you feel like you suck. If I slam at a skatepark or some place where there are a lot of people around, it’s almost like they’ve been expecting it or something. It’s like everyone thinks I’m always falling. That can be pretty embarrassing and kind of a bummer. It kinda fucks with your concentration, too, but it’s okay. That’s just the way I skate. I can’t really change that, even if I wanted to… although it would definitely hurt less.  

photo: whiteley

How did that switch concept come about anyways? I know you were having trouble with injuries, is that a theme you’d been thinking about for a long time? 

Honestly, no, that is not something that I’ve ever wanted to do. It wasn’t planned at all. 

That part was a hard one for me because I actually had 2 knee surgeries during the filming of that video in addition to getting on the team right in the middle of filming. Most people had a couple more years to film as I was late to the party, on top of those injuries. 

So… are you regular-footed or goofy-footed?

I’m regular-footed.

Ok, so imagine your right knee had a really bad injury that you’re recovering from. Whenever you ollie, you pop off your right foot. That’s the foot that will propel you. Your other foot will lift you but it’s that right foot that snaps off the ground and pushes you into the air. Well, my back knee was so hurt at the time that I couldn’t skate normal…  but I could skate switch. So, it was completely the injury. 

I did film a few things that were regular but they just weren’t all that good. I think Miner made a good choice with the switch theme because it made the whole thing much stronger. He took maybe 16 tricks and turned it into an entire video part. He made a half-assed video part into a drama with all of this struggle in the beginning before it turns around in the middle. He gave it a story to make up for my injuries.

So the “switch part” wasn’t even your idea? It wasn’t something you were actively working towards during filming?

No, filming was all done. It was his decision all on his own and I really owe him for that. Without his choices, that part would’ve been some 45-second thing that just went by. That was all Jon Miner. 

You mentioned earlier how much planning your filming process now requires. Do you find yourself doing more homework and even making lists these days? Because I know for a while after Bag of Suck, you definitely seemed a little over it. 

I’ve kinda gone back to being a kid again. I’m making trick lists now. I’m watching videos constantly again. It’s been really fun. 

You’re right in that there was a time where I wasn’t really interested in skating that much. I was pretty burnt on it… not that it’s a bad thing to feel that way. Highs and lows are natural and I think it’s necessary to walk away from something you’re passionate about for a little bit when it becomes a bit too intense. 

It just feels good to be working on a project. I’ve started to find myself researching spots, going to check them out and fixing them if need be. I’m making lists and practicing. Even going out skating with the crew on days when I’m not actually filming, just to skate whatever. Fun stuff. 

All of this has been a really awesome side effect of Made 2 that I wasn’t even expecting. But all that energy being spent towards skating also means that it’s much more serious overall. Along with the lists, there are schedules. We're meeting at this time on this day, we’re doing this trick at this spot with this photographer. It’s not as spontaneous now. Because I still want to do things that are hard and film something worthwhile, there needs to be a process now as opposed to when you’re younger and shit just happens. 

Is it more stressful as a kid going into the unknown or as a pro with so many great parts to live up to?

As far as “the unknown”, they’re actually both kind of the same. As a kid, everything is open and exciting compared to when you’re older and things are expected of you. Personal expectations and otherwise. There are personal demons you have to conquer. That can be less exciting but is probably more gratifying to conquer. 

When you’re younger, you take that stuff for granted because it all comes so easily. But when you’re older, it takes more effort… blood, sweat or whatever. If I land a trick now that I’m proud of, I come home and celebrate a little. It’s something that I’ve put a lot of time and effort into. 

That’s the difference between being young and not knowing versus being old and experienced. You are aware of what has happened previously while simultaneously trying to do it all again. You just can’t take anything for granted anymore. 

Didn’t you film for Black Cat and The Storm at the same time? That’s like 8 minutes of footage in a year. 

Yeah, just like I said, that just comes with being young and going out filming all the time. You go out with your friends and a camera and stuff happens. You just amass all this footage and at the end, it’s awesome. You just pick and choose where you want each thing to go. 

Which part got the better stuff? 

I’d say Black Cat because it was a time when board companies were much more important. Filming for your board sponsor was such a big deal so I definitely sent my best stuff to Maple. It’s funny because the Osiris people actually tried to buy clips off of me that they knew I was sending to Maple and I wouldn’t do it. Nope, not for sale. (laughs)

Skipping right past the Storm Flip, what was it like being part of that enormous Osiris team during that era? 

I was always kind of an outsider on the team. That was basically when San Diego was an epicenter of skating but that style and aesthetic… I wouldn’t really call my thing. I was just happy to be sponsored really. To be a part of that group with all its successes was a total trip. It was a really crazy time and everyone kinda got swept up by the whole thing. 

Part of the team was definitely delusional. All of a sudden being given so much and becoming famous really tweaked a lot of people on the team and at the company. They thought it was going to last forever. But I had my friends there and I rolled with it for like 10 years.

So even at such a young age, you never got caught up in the Kasparholic glory days? It seemed just as over-the-top from the inside as it did to everyone else? 

I was young but I still knew how crazy and delusional Josh was. I actually kind picked on him a little bit because of the things that he’d do on tours. I don’t want to throw him under the bus too hard here but how he would go about these demos…I heard he was really influenced by pro wrestling and that made a lot of sense to me. He would apply that same mentality to his skating. Like, I know he would bail tricks on purpose at demos just to dramatize his skating. Ollieing off vert ramps and constantly trying to hype up the crowd, literally trying to get them to chant his name.  

Sometimes he would get these kids foaming at the mouth and then not be able to do his trick or he would slam real bad. Everyone would just lower their heads like, “Oh man...”

Josh was an example of someone who was poisoned by “success”. I’m sure he’s much different now but referring to himself in the third-person back then… that was 100% a real thing.  

Who would you say had your favorite part in the Storm?

This might surprise some people but I always really liked Chad Fernandez’ part. He was so gnarly. He did some really impressive things in there and I gotta hand it to him. 

photo: whiteley

Never gets old. Why do you think Osiris and things like the D3 are so heavily ridiculed? It’s not like it existed in a vacuum and there were plenty of other things around just as goofy at the time.

I do think that it kinda deserved that ridicule. Osiris had this hip-hop/skate mentality, which is an easy target in a world like skateboarding. And there were definitely times where I was personally embarrassed by some of the things that the company or my teammates would do. Stuff like ollieing a DJ. 

Meanwhile, you’re skating to Stereolab.

(laughs) Totally, and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t their first choice for me. I just figured since I kinda stuck out on the team already, I might as well go with music I liked.

I think the thing about Osiris is that they took themselves too seriously. It’s hard to put into words about what made Osiris kind of a goofy company but, at the same time, it’s totally obvious. It’s the mix of late 90’s San Diego, rap and skateboarding cultures. Osiris embodied those three things and sold a lot of shoes but left a lot of people wondering what the hell was going on. It’s easy to make fun of. It’s kind of silly in the same way something like hair metal, punk rock, stoner rock or riding motorcycles can be. Skaters just want to see skating and when there’s all this peripheral popular culture mixed in, it can be a real turn-off. 

Plus, the money. They had so much money that good ideas took a backseat. When you don’t have to struggle to succeed, you can become complacent and start going with ideas that may not be the best. Throwing money at something doesn’t make it better. It has to be a good idea and maybe Osiris wasn’t coming up with the best ones.  

We Kill Trees and Party. Jerry Don’t Surf. Hairdiaper Cameltoe. So many classics. What’s your all-time favorite Enjoi Ad?  

Hairdiaper Cameltoe is pretty fucking sick. That one is very Marc Johnson. I like the found photo ads, too… like “Even your two dads love enjoi”.  And my goodbye ad: It’s not you, it’s me. That was Louie’s idea.

There’s so many to choose from but Weiger’s backtail with this whole name on the bottom of the board… wow, that was genius. Wieger came up with that, Louie built the board and Matt designed the ad. So funny. 

I also loved any ad satirizing the business side of skateboarding; the greedy pig mask ads or just things that expressed Matt’s mood at the time whenever the ads were due. Like one time, he just made an ad with a sinking ship on it because he was so frustrated. 

Another one of my favorites is the Jake Phelps “Why Can’t My Boyfriend Skate?” ad, which caused a lot of controversy. 

I remember Matt asking me beforehand, “Should I even do this?”

“I don’t know, man. You’re really going to hear about it with this one.”

“Ok, I’m gonna do it.”

One thing that always trips me out are all of the riders who came and went at Enjoi prior to Bag of Suck (Rodney, Puleo, Staba, Mayhew, MJ, etc.). Why was there such a high turnover in those early years? Did it make things hard for you to stick with the company or did each migration further enhance your role within? 

Riders coming and going on a company like enjoi doesn’t really seem that weird to me at all. There were definitely a couple guys that got on that I was confused about to begin with. I mean, if Rodney or Marc wanted a kid on the team, they got on. But I think enjoi attracts a lot of weirdos and weirdos can just decide to quit one day out of the blue.

The only person who left that made a big impact was Marc, obviously. After that, my role got a little bigger but I just focused on skating and not all that other noise. 

Talk a little about the proposed migration of the majority of Enjoi riders to a new company at Girl when MJ was first trying to leave. Do you remember any talk of this?

I don’t think that was a very realistic thing. It was nothing more than ideas and talk and wishful thinking. It was never seriously discussed. 

Marc left because he didn’t work well at Dwindle. He didn’t like feeling that Dwindle had control over the company’s money and ideas. He’s a stubborn, highly-intelligent guy so when things aren’t really going the right way, he’s just gonna go, “I’m outta here,” and I back that.

He could leave and just be a professional skateboarder somewhere else. He didn’t want to run his own board company anymore and who can blame him? Running a company while being a pro skateboarder at the same time has to be very difficult. He’d just had a kid and was dealing with a lot of stuff. He needed to be somewhere that would take care of him. At Girl and Chocolate, that is very much the case. 

I didn’t understand any of this at the time and I was honestly very upset when he left. It wasn’t until later that I started to understand. 

But no, I remember the Enjoi-at-Girl thing being mentioned but it never really went further than that. Not seriously. I mean, I know Mike and Rick are fans but realistically, that wasn’t gonna happen.

photo: whiteley

Going back a little bit, weren’t you also rumored to be part of a proposed Phil Shao company prior to Enjoi as well? Dump Truck?

Yeah, that’s true. Phil was going to start up a new company right before he passed away. I remember having a meeting about it at Mark Whiteley’s house in Palo Alto where Phil told me all about what he wanted to do and who he wanted on the team. It sounded really cool but I had just turned pro for Maple and was very loyal to them. They had done so much for me. 

I told Phil that I was going to think about it but honestly, I probably wasn’t going to do it. I definitely respected Phil to the utmost but I just couldn’t quit Maple at that time. It’s sad to think about because that was probably the last time I saw Phil. 

So we gotta get into it: your 7-minute magnum opus that is Bag of Suck. Having not put out a part in a minute, did you go into this thinking that it was going to be your big statement? How long were you guys filming for that and were you ultimately happy with how it came out?

I was happy with how it all came out but I never planned for it to become anything. Usually a video starts by just going out filming for a bit. That goes on for a little while before you start to hear some rumblings. Maybe we’re making a video? It was never like, “Ok, today we’re going to start a video.” Maybe it’s more like that today.

I’d been putting stuff towards Bag of Suck for a long time. There’s footage in there from maybe 4 or 5 years out but it was weird because we were never really sure if we were even making a video for the longest time. It really wasn’t until the last year and a half or so that it became really serious. Like, we’re fucking doing this and I’m going out as much as I possibly can to do as much as I possibly can.

But no, it was never supposed to be this big statement-type thing. I only planned on doing my best. Trying as hard as I could.  I didn’t have any other projects going on so there was nothing in the way for me. Like we talked about earlier, Black Cat and The Storm basically split my skate brain in two. This time I didn’t have to multi-task. When you have a singular focus, you skate harder. You can either do an ok job at two things or a really good job at one thing. Since there was no other thing I had to be responsible for, it came out better that way. 

How’d that nollie backside heel at Lincoln ender-ender go down? Was that just you searching for a closer?

Not really. By that point, we were in the final month of the project and my entire part was basically done. Filming was over. I’d already tried that one earlier and was unable to land it. 

It was basically a situation that happens between skaters and their filmer at the end of a long project where things can get tense.  I went over to Matt Evs’ apartment as he was working on shit, just to check in on everything. I said something to the effect of, “I know you’re really stressed right now but do you need me to help with anything?”

He just turns to me and says, “Just go do that backside nollie heelflip.”

I was like, “What an asshole!”… but it really drove me to try it again.

It was literally the last day before Matt was to drive to LA and begin mastering the video at Dwindle. The last possible day and it was looking pretty dark, man. I was in a weird place. There was all this pressure. My heel was hurting. I was at the top of those stairs, just going full speed at them and I wasn’t even coming close at all. I wasn’t even catching it. And then, luckily, it just happened. 

photo: whiteley

So amazing, man. But what about the intros in that one? Was that stuff fun to do? I know there’s that one shot by the pool where the phone is already dialed on 911, was that stuff really so sketchy to do? 

Those were just fun little projects but no, I don’t think they were really that sketchy. But I liked them because they were creative analog titles and no one was really doing things like that at the time. I felt it was like a nod to that whole Tiltmode aesthetic; a very DIY approach. I’ve always felt that Enjoi was birthed out of the whole Tiltmode movement. Tiltmode was basically the mother of Enjoi. 

We talked earlier about that Phelps ad. Be honest, and I know it’s kinda goofy, but you had to be a little bummed about not winning SOTY that year, right? I know it wasn’t as much of a thing then but you were definitely my choice. 

(laughs) Thanks, man. But yeah, SOTY wasn’t like how it is now where people basically campaign for it. It’s kinda weird… like you’re trying to become the President of Skateboarding or something. At that point, it was starting to evolve into the campaign that it is now but it wasn’t quite there yet. 

I’d heard through my friend Mark Whiteley, who worked at High Speed, that I was being considered for it. Of course, I was pretty shocked by that but I didn’t really know what to do with that information. I ended up making the decision to call Jake. I didn’t really want to but I figured I would regret it later if I didn’t at least ask. It’s often too easy to play that kind of stuff off. Downplaying things in order not to look dumb. I had to get over the fact that I actually wanted it.

Jake was very frank about everything. He was considering me for it but I hadn’t really been in Thrasher that much over the year, which was true. He basically told me that I wasn’t going to get it. That I had skated hard and definitely could’ve gotten it but I hadn’t played the game. I just didn’t know, there were no rules really at that point. Whether that really mattered or not, who knows. It would’ve been nice but it was an honor just to be considered.

photo: tanju

From your 411 parts in class and in the Maple van through all the Tiltmode stuff and up to your Welcome to Chocolate ad, you’ve always had a flair for doing skits. Why is that? Would you ever consider acting or, I know you’re into photography, possibly directing short films in the future?

To be honest, most of those weren’t my idea. Skits are just a part of skate videos. People have been doing this stuff since Animal Chin and beyond. I don’t like acting at all but doing skits was just kind of effective, I guess. But wow, watching those old 411 skits is extremely painful. 

I gotta ask about my all-time favorite, though, with the baseball bat and RailChomper2015 in Bonus Round. So amazing. Is that a response to anything in particular?

That was Matt Evs’ idea. People talking shit on the internet had just started to become so commonplace in skating, he wanted to comment on the whole situation and how shitty people can be. I felt the same way. It was really nothing specific on my end, Matt just happened to pick me for it…. though I do feel like I am sort of a target on the internet for some reason. I don’t really know why. 

I remember the first time I read a really nasty comment about my skating on the internet. It was crippling and I probably didn’t get over it for like two years. “What a baby”, I know, but our brains have a bias towards negativity. Like if you receive 1 negative comment out of 100 postive ones, you’ll only think about the bad one. Like I said before, skaters are so insecure.

I also put a lot of personal stuff on the internet, like photography, and I feel people love to criticize that.  

photo: brook

I know you’ve talked about the departure of Matt Evs having a large part in your own leaving of Enjoi but how did Chocolate come about? Were you actively looking and were there other options you were thinking about? 

I really had no idea where I was gonna go when I decided to leave Enjoi. And it was at a time when my stock wasn’t exactly at its highest so I was scared. It was kind of a make-or-break moment for me. I had nothing planned and I didn’t really know what I was worth anymore. I didn’t know what people thought of me and if I actually had a chance anywhere else. Skateboarding can be pretty cold. It’s always been good to me but it can be unfair. I’ve definitely watched people around me just drop like flies and it’s really scary. 

Someone I’ve always turned to over the years has been Marc. He got me on Maple. He got me on Enjoi. So I called him and explained what was going on. I am appreciative for all that he’s done for me in the past but I was wondering if there was a chance he could maybe help me out again. 

“Of course, I will help you! I’m not going to promise you anything but I will put in a good word.”

It wasn’t easy for Mike and Rick to put me on as they had just turned Raven, Stevie and Elijah pro. Putting on another guy wasn’t easy for them but they made it happen. I couldn’t be more appreciative because I went from not even knowing if anybody would sponsor me at all to getting on Chocolate, which is something I thought could never happen. 

I actually remember Alex Olson asking me if I’d like to ride for Chocolate years ago. I told him I was too involved with Enjoi at the time but was totally flattered.

Honestly, I really felt that I wasn’t worthy of riding for a company like that. It’s like the SOTY thing where I was afraid of rejection but I had to at least try. I had to ask. There were other offers, too, but they didn’t feel right.

How was Stay Flared? Combining Chocolate Jerry with Emerica Jerry had to be a breath of fresh air. What was the most surprising thing from the experience?

The most surprising thing about that tour is just how well it worked. Four vans, 2 teams and so many strong personalities on one trip with one goal… and it went swimmingly. So fun and so easy. It was awesome. 

The teams got along so well together. And to be on a tour with that many legendary skaters, doing demos together, being a waiter’s worst nightmare together... It was amazing and I’m so thankful to have been part of that. Just waking up everyday and going into the parking lot where everyone is sitting around, talking and laughing together while Biebel’s doing push-ups. It was a wonderful.

Is there supposed to be a Beauty and the Beast-style video on the way with all that stuff?

Well, unfortunately in this day and age, there probably won’t be. There are the Thrasher episodes but it would be nice to have a physical thing like a long, cohesive video. It’s doubtful, though. It’s in Thrasher’s hands. There’s enough footage for it to be a full video but at the same time, I imagine Beauty and the Beast having a totally different feeling. Stay Flared was mostly just demos and street. 

Good point. So what’s next, Jerry? I know you have Made 2 coming up but any other future plans, skating or otherwise? 

Other than the next video, I’m also working on another art project with my photography. Just trying to explore and learn more about that. That’s the nice thing about being a skateboarder is that it affords me time to explore these other things. That’s always in the back of my mind. Whenever I’m not skating, that’s what I’m doing. That’s what is fun and rewarding to me, outside of skateboarding. 

But to be honest, I’m so focused on this Made 2 project that I’m hardly even thinking about anything else. 

Good to hear. Last question, all-time best San Jose skater?

Fuck! That’s a rough one to end on, man. That’s hard. 

There’s no way to say who the all-time “best” is but I’m gonna give it to Mike Crabtree. It’s just one of those things where nobody knows how gnarly this human being is. He’s so raw and talented but so much went unrecorded. If you were lucky enough to see it firsthand, you know it happened. He’s legendary in San Jose and I have so much respect for him… in the same way that I have to mention Crazy Eddie here, too. Crazy Eddie is another one. He’s not a very documented skater. Barely anybody knows who he is but everytime I saw him skate, I was amazed. Casually fakie ollieing into bowls instead of dropping in… the type of skating where he’s in the middle of the air and you just know he’s about to die… and then he does it. 

There’s so many people to choose from. Salman, Cab…

I figured you might go with one of those two but I’m stoked on your answer.

Yeah, those guys are obviously legendary skaters. Ray Barbee, too. But I have to give it to a guy like Crabtree for being so gnarly just for himself. Someone who doesn’t care about the money or the glory, just the thrill of doing it. You have to respect that. 

Thanks to Mark Whiteley and Jerry for taking the time. 

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Friend of the CBI and all-around renaissance man/good dude, Mark Whiteley recently begat a second book of his lovely skateboarding imagery you'll definitely want to get your grubby mitts on. Focusing this time on collecting the best of Marky's trick flicks from over the years, Gutter features a virtual "who's who" from both the Bay Area and beyond, all out in the streets and doing their thing. It also features an introduction by little old me. (blush)

Get it here and if you happen to be in San Jose tomorrow, stop by and say hello.

guest post: "the gnarler" phil shao by mark whiteley

Mark Whiteley remembers Phil Shao

There’s a spot on Highway 101 way up in northern California, just south of Humboldt State, that might be my least favorite place on Earth, to the point that I try to forget it’s even there. Last week I was driving with my wife and kids down the coast from Portland to the Bay Area on a vacation roll and only a few minutes beforehand did I realize I was about to come upon it once again. It’s the spot where one of my best friends died in a car crash 16 years ago. His name was Phil Shao. Some of you might remember him.

Wait, wait, wait-- way too much of a bummer way to start this out! Phil would not approve. But it’s a heavy location for me and driving past it made me want to write this so I had to acknowledge it. Phil would also not approve that I started the last sentence with “But.” More on that later.

Let’s take it back a bit further. Sorry in advance, this is gonna be a long one.

In 1990, I started using my parents’ video camera to film the homies skating now and then. We were just like all the kids from that generation who were inspired by the H-Street videos, Rubbish Heap, etc. to pick up a camera and make our own video because it looked like we could. So I did. Dumb little edits from around our little town, but it was rad. In the early summer of ’92, I invested $99 into a screw-on fisheye lens that would fit the family video camera and it turned out to be the purchase that most changed the direction of my life. I put the lens on, called up my friend Nate and we filmed a whole new video part in a couple days (edited to Cypress Hill, a sure sign of the times). With that fisheye, I was suddenly an official filmer. I showed the edit of Nate to a few friends and people started to know I was into it.

Later that summer I was introduced to William Nguyen, who was a local am on Santa Cruz and trying to finish filming a part for their next video. This was the first time I was introduced as “a filmer” to anybody. He asked if I could help him finish his part and over the next few months he would come and pick me up to go filming around the Bay Area (I didn’t even have a license yet). In October of 1992, the video BPSW (aka Big Pants Small Wheels) came out, William had the last part and my footage of him was all over it, including first and last tricks. My name was in the credits. Having that under my belt gave me the confidence that I could really pursue being a filmer and so a couple weeks later, I was at my local shop with friends when I saw a guy I had seen around a couple times-- a guy who had been in the mags, a guy I knew was sponsored, “a guy named Phil” as Transworld had captioned him in a photo—and I introduced myself and said that if he ever needed to go film anything that I was around and would be happy to do it.  He was stoked and wrote his name and number in the October ’92 issue of SLAP and gave it to me. A couple days later, we went out skating and filming for the first time. From that day on for the next almost six years, I don’t think more than a couple weeks ever went by without us doing that same thing. We became fast friends and a new chapter of my life was up and running. 

Soon after, it was decided that Think was going to do a new video and so it worked out that we had a project to work on. We went after it. It was late ’92 into early ’93 and the prime time for flippity-floppity skating that we were all guilty of, but prior to my knowing him, Phil had been a tranny gnar dog, complete with long hair and tricks that were not in style in the early ‘90s (like laybacks; he had a mean one). Watching him meld those skills with more modern street skating was always a joy. He was so smooth on all-terrain and pretty untouchable at a mini ramp session. We went all over the Bay Area and skated with tons of new people, he got better and better, picked up a shoe sponsor, and come September ’93, Phil turned pro at the Back to the City contest (the one where Girl was unveiled). He killed it and took 3^rd, right alongside Matt Beach who also turned pro at that contest and won it. Christian Hosoi congratulated Phil after the contest, telling him that he liked Phil’s style. I don't think I ever saw a bigger smile on anybody’s face then right there. 

We filmed on through the fall and towards the end of ’93, Think released Just Another Day on the Range featuring parts that I had helped film for with Dan Drehobl, Matt Pailes, Paul Zuanich, and the debut part for Phil. I had also started contributing footage to Thrasher and been asked to join the fledgling 411 earlier that year, so we had other outlets to keep being productive with after the Think project was done. We started in on his “Rookies” 411 part that would come out in October of ’94. It was during this time that Phil really started to come into his own. The early ‘90s switch-double-late-varial stuff was gone and Phil started putting his power, grace and speed to proper use. Faster, further, cleaner. The coping dancing was done, replaced with chest-high f/s flips and nosegrind pop-ins up the extension. And Greer. Nobody even came close at Greer. He did transfers in the bowls that have never been repeated to this day.  Not a lot of guys could do tailslide kickflip out on a ledge at one session and then go down the road and blast 10’ channel transfers at the next. Definitely not in the early ‘90s.

Towards the end of summer ’94, I moved 45 minutes south to Santa Cruz to go to college but that just expanded our range. We started filming towards what would become his Damage part and that period is when he really hit his stride and started doing the things that he would become remembered for, trick-wise and also stylistically. Fast and loose ATV, pure style. The b/s 180 over the entire pyramid at Santa Rosa, stuff like that. I moved back home for the summer in ’95 and I remember those summer days that year so well. I was working part-time moving furniture, he was doing junior college summer school. We would all hang out at Paul and Phil’s place on sweltering days, hand-rolling cigarettes and blasting Stereolab until it cooled down so we could skate. He was just crushing it everywhere we went. We skated at night a lot that summer and it was so fun. The line that starts off his part in Damage was filmed at the San Jose Sharks stadium in the middle of the night. Those were the purest skate days, out in the streets doing it every day.  One of my favorite days from that summer was the one where he slammed on a bump to bar, which ended up in the opening to Damage. The footage looks terrible, like he hit his face on the rail, but in reality he was laughing before he hit the ground and lay there chuckling about such a stupid slam for quite some time. That’s just exactly how he was. 

The summer passed, I went back to Santa Cruz, and the year ended. 1995 had been great-- but 1996 was about to become probably my favorite skate year of all-time, and I gotta say that it was Phil’s best year. It was his peak. Damage came out and we went right into filming for Emerica’s Yellow video. Phil and Drehobl had been good friends for years but filming with both of them for that video at that time was unreal. They were so gnarly together, just the rawest twin destroyers crushing SF.  McKenney, too. Murder at China Banks. Dan and Phil had back-to-back parts in that video, sharing a song (“Kids From the Black Hole” and I gotta say sorry AVE but they had you beat by a solid decade with that one). I think it was his best part while he was alive and we filmed it all in a pretty short period—just shows you where his skating was at during that time. Effortless and gnarly. So relaxed, so casual—you can see it in the arms, the hands, the knees, his swerve, his push. Nobody like him. I filmed my favorite line of him that summer—it’s in the Yellow part, as well as his Dedication part after he passed. Kickflip up the curb straight into a wall ride, ollie a little bump, feeble grind pop-out on a ledge with wall at the end of it, 360 flip while riding away down the hill. That was my number one. We watched the footage of it right after and I remember him saying all goofy to me, “You’re the best filmer in town!” I’m always stoked when I remember that day.

One quick note here: I wasn’t there when he grinded the top bar at Miley unfortunately, but here’s a good one. I’ve written about it before, but it’s worth mentioning again. A week or two after he grinded it, we were out filming for Yellow in SF and he said he wanted to go back. That day, he got into and slid several tailslides on the top bar, same place where he grinded it. We lost the daylight and the camera batteries were cooked after a long day but he was real close. In the final minutes of the fading grey light, with no documentation possible and just a few of us to witness it, he made one. He did it for himself, simply because he wanted it that much. Not for fame, not for a cover or a check, but just for him. And of course, even though he could barely see, it was perfect. 

Right after we wrapped filming for Yellow, as I had hoped and dreamed for years, I was invited on a summer tour. Phil told me it was happening and I quit my summer job at Whole Foods on the spot so I could get ready to go. To this day, of all the many trips around the world I have been on for skateboarding, that tour was the craziest of all. No team manager, 15 dudes in their own cars, a weird mash-up of companies involved, no photographer and just me filming, driving cross-country for weeks on end. We had some demo dates lined up but that was it. Each guy got $20 a day to live on. Hotels or people’s houses were whatever we found when we got there. It ruled. Phil, Paul, Drehobl, Pailes, Jesse Paez, Joe Sierro, Don Carey, Chad Fernandez  and Joel Price from Think; Justin Strubing and Hanzy Driscoll from Adrenaline; Brian Childers from Santa Cruz; and Chet Childress and Bob Reynolds from Creature. It came together like that because Bob Reynolds worked in the shipping warehouse of Think and Adrenaline while also riding for Creature out of NHS, which was in Santa Cruz where I knew all the SC guys, too. The kind of thing that would probably never happen today. Within minutes of leaving SF, it went off. A side window in Bob’s van shattered on the freeway and for the rest of the trip, it was covered with various pages out of porn mags taped together. We would skate the demo in Reno or wherever until late and then drive all night blasting Black Sabbath, trying to stay awake until we couldn’t anymore. We'd crash wherever we could find a place then get up and drive the rest of the way to Salt Lake, or Ft Collins, or Lincoln, or Cleveland, or upstate New York or New Hampshire or Boston or whatever was next on the list. So many crazy stories. Having to leave town fast because of somebody and an underage girl. The family of the kid who invited the whole lot of us to stay at their house, feed us and do our laundry... we promptly shaved their son’s head in a double Mohawk. Breaking down in the middle of nowhere and relying on Paul to fix the engine. Watching insane sunrises after all-nighters in Phil’s car, blasting “Hole In The Sky” or the Morrissey tape that Gonz had made him. Impromptu gas station sessions. Endless hours, endless miles. And just incredible skating. Everybody skated and killed it at every stop. Fun, fun, fun. I turned 20 during the trip, somewhere in Massachusetts, and the journey became a 411 article in issue 20.

The trip ended, summer ended, we both went back to our respective colleges and just went about our business for awhile, skating together one place or another every couple weeks. I started working on a Skateworks shop video for the Strubing family that would bridge the gap between Santa Cruz and Bay Area and Phil had a part in that. I gave some rad SF stuff to Thrasher for another video (when it came time to get paid for it, I went in to Thrasher to collect a check. Jake said, “Who are you and why should we pay you anything? What did you film?” I told him it was footage of Phil, and he said immediately, “Alright, pay the kid”) but that summer of ’96 ended up being the last time we were really filming regularly for a project or two. But darn, it was a good one.

Phil continued to kill it into ’97 but wasn’t working towards anything part-wise so there isn’t a lot of my footage from around then—but there are a few good ones, like him crushing the bank to barrier down on the Embarcadero in SF and his f/s pivot on the tight tranny wall we called "Trash Banks" in Palo Alto (18” of tranny, three feet of vert, just impossible). Then, at some point in ’97, he was down in So Cal and shooting photos when he really messed up his knee. He did his ACL and maybe his MCL, too... I’m not positive. But it really set him back. He had to get surgery and was on crutches for a long time. It was during this down time that he started spending more time at High Speed—home of Thrasher and SLAP. He’d obviously always been tight with the crew via friendships and sponsorships but it was mutually agreed upon that while he was hurt, he should be around Thrasher and help with writing and editing, given his education and knowledge in general. So Phil would go in most days, ride the exercise bike in Jake’s office to rehab his knee and work at the mag. I remember how stoked he was when he went to pick up Daewon at the airport to bring him to the photo shoot that would become the “Hesh vs Fresh” cover with Wade. After a while of this, it was decided that after he recovered, he would do another strong video part or two and then transition into being the new editor at Thrasher. Jake had been wanting to pass the torch at the time and there was nobody better than Phil to take it. So, in some alternate future that never happened, Phil would have been the editor at Thrasher at the same time I would become the editor at SLAP. 

Another thing that came up around then and never got to happen was that Phil was going to have a company of his own through Think. It got pretty far along, narrowed down to a couple potential names and a list of guys who were either going to ride for it or Phil talked to about riding for it. The name was either going to be Dump Truck or TNT. There were even some graphic ideas getting put down on paper. The names I remember being involved were Phil, Paul Zuanich, Tim Upson, Tim McKenney and Mike Matilainen. Some other folks that were interested or talked to about it were Karma Tsocheff, Jerry Hsu and Colt Cannon. Anyhow, it’s too bad that never came to life, it could have been a good one with Phil at the helm.

So anyhow, Phil continued going to school, working at the mag and rehabbing for awhile. In early ’98, he started skating again, getting back into the groove. He was skating pools and ledges and building his strength back up, but I seem to recall he got slightly hurt again somewhere in there and it was slow going for a while. But it was coming. I was just about to graduate from college and Phil told me that there had been some talks about bringing in an assistant editor at SLAP to help Dawes run it and that he and Paul, who was also working at High Speed, had brought my name up. With all the friends and connections I had made in the NorCal industry over the years, it sounded like a lot of people were backing it. Paul and Phil started pushing hard for it but it was slow getting anything going until one day, Phil and I were out skating at a local park when a very young Tony Vitello needed a ride home. Phil and I dropped him off and went around the back to say hello to Fausto, who was sitting poolside. Phil introduced me, saying “This is the guy I’ve been telling you about for SLAP.” Fausto told me I should come by the office the next day to talk, so I did. My “interview” was about three minutes long (including Fausto asking me if I was a hippie) and then I was offered the job as Managing Editor at SLAP, which had long been my favorite magazine and even played a part in Phil and I becoming friends with him passing his number to me in the back of an issue. I kinda couldn’t believe it. We decided I would start in a couple weeks as I was just about to go on a road trip with friends, so I did that and then started working at High Speed on Monday, August 10^th, 1998. I was 21 and just six weeks out of college. Phil pretty much got me the job.

11 days later, on a Friday evening after work, Phil and Diego Bucchieri (who had been staying with Paul and Phil, skating and learning to speak English at their house) met up with me on a hill bomb session for a couple of hours. Those two were just about to leave on a road trip up to Oregon with some of the Thrasher guys, so we decided to have a session before they hit the road. We mashed all over Potrero Hill, flying around and stopping for a beer. I was riding a big cruiser board and going faster than them half the time... I remember really distinctly coming down the east side of 18^th near De Haro and passing Phil mid-block, looking back and him having this huge smile on his face, stoked that I was going faster than him. Makes me smile every time I think of it.

Our session ended and I went to drop them off at Greg Carroll’s place to get ready to leave. We said our goodbyes, see you in a couple days, and parted ways. For some unknown reason, I stopped and watched Phil and Diego walk down the block away from me, west on 23^rd towards the Mission. The sun was setting behind them and it was a pretty summer evening in SF. It was the last time I ever saw Phil.

They headed out on the road and the next day made it as far north as Arcata, CA. There’s some footage of him skating that night, on a little mini ramp in barn of some sort. He was still on the mend but skating well. Arcata is home to Humboldt State University, and there was some local party they were invited to. As I understand it, they stayed at the party pretty late, past midnight, and Phil decided to catch a ride back to where they were staying with a girl at the party, a student who was moving back to the dorms. She had been drinking. On the freeway just south of the exit for Humboldt State, she either fell asleep or passed out and went off the road into the ditch that ran alongside the freeway. The crash was pretty bad. The report that I saw after the fact said that when the police got to the scene, the girl was not badly injured but was out of it and said that nobody else was with her in the vehicle. Because of that statement and because she was in the process of moving and her clothing and things were strewn all over the inside of the car,  nobody knew that Phil was also in the vehicle at first. When the police did find him, he was gone. There’s no way to know whether or not he died instantly or if there might have been time to do something. I like to think it was instant, and I know he would have preferred it that way.

The girl who’d been driving did a little time in jail but Phil’s family did not press hard charges. I believe she spent a lot more time speaking to people about drunk driving. And I’m sure she lives with it every day. I never learned her name or anything about her. I never wanted to. 

Oh and wait-- did I mention that he passed on my birthday? Yup. So I have that one with me forever. Tony Vitello’s, too. I believe that word got round about what had happened that evening but nobody wanted to call and tell me since it was my birthday. I found out the next morning at work when all the guys who should have been on the trip with him were in the office not looking too well. Jake told me the news. I was in a daze. I remember walking down to leave the office when in walked Diego. He still barely spoke any English. We just looked at each other and gave each other a big hug. (In recent years I have had the pleasure of being employed by the same company as Diego and we still always sign off our emails with “Un abrazo.”) Later I thought about how insane it must have been for him: in a foreign country he barely knew, hardly any English, staying with somebody who died. His whole world must have seemed gone. Anyhow, I started driving home. The Beatles song “Two Of Us” came on and I cried the entire way home. I went straight to Mike Matilainen's house. He was barely moving. He’d been through a lot the last couple years. He was the one who told me nobody had wanted to call me about it on my birthday, and that he was sorry I found out like I did. I don’t remember anything else from that day. The next day I went back to work and it was deadline. I had to write his obituary that day to get it done in time for the issue. Hadn’t I just been skating with him a couple days before? It didn’t seem real.

Phil had been doing a lot of story writing for Thrasher around that time and he was working on one about skating pools right before he passed. I don’t have a lot of regrets in my life but I have one from the first week I was working at SLAP, just before he passed. I was pretty tired from the mental stress of figuring out a new job and working full time in an office for the first time, when Phil told me he had a nearby pool lined up for an evening session... just me and him, I didn’t go because I was tired.  It’s the only time I ever said no to going skating with him. The article had gone to press before he passed and right after he passed, it came out. In it he wrote about the fact that I didn’t go with him and he skated the pool alone. He referred to the character of Little Fidel in the story, but it was me (I was into wearing this little black beanie and I had a crappy beard going). In the light of him being gone and there being nothing I could do to change missing that session with him, I was devastated reading that. That feeling, and having to write the obituary for him in my first issue, knowing that he had lined the job up for me—it was almost too much and I thought about not going back to the mag. I quickly came to the realization that there was probably nothing that would disappoint him more than me walking away from what we had set up, walking away from the opportunity to do something great. So I went back and put my heart and soul into SLAP for almost 13 years after that. I put his initials (PAS) first in the staff “thanks” section every single month. I owed him a lot. I loved him a lot. I missed him a lot. Still do. Thinking back on it, he was the older guy in our crew and he seemed so grown up—but he was only 24 when he died. 24. He was still a kid. He packed tons into those years, living more fully than many who live much longer, but there was a lot he never had the chance to experience. I get bummed when I think about all the great things that have happened in my life since then that he didn’t get to be part of and that’s when I miss him the most. But that’s rare. Mostly I just think of the best times together.

What I remember most fondly about Phil wasn’t the skating, it was his personality. He was so funny, and nice, and a dick, and sarcastic, and smart, and an idiot and the raddest to hang out with. He was brutally honest. No ego, ever. But mainly, he was so fun. Looking at his footage for the subtleties of him as a person, you can see it come through. Big goofy smiles in the middle of lines or after slams, weird little comments you can barely hear under the music (“Hey, I made it!,” “Whoa, around the world!,” “I’m, like, the gnarler!”, etc.). He loved Mozart as much as he loved ACDC. He skated to Weird Al in a contest and laughed so hard at the lyrics that he couldn’t land anything. He graduated from UC Berkeley (English Lit major; you don’t start a sentence with “But” from above) at the peak of his skating career and hardly anybody knew he was even going to college at the same time because he was crushing it so hard. He was the total package that a skater could ever dream to be, and he was as great a person as I have ever known. I think he sent me a postcard from just about every trip he ever went on. That kind of guy.

But the skating… well, that speaks for itself. Like Gonz before him, like Cardiel with him, like Grant after him, he slayed everything with power, creativity and unique style. It says a lot when Julien Stranger puts you in an ad for a company you didn’t even ride for and says “The straight up best skater I knew” out of respect. But he deserved it, for damn sure.

All hail Phil Shao! One of the best to ever do it. More importantly, my friend. 

Never Forget.