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| illustration: cliver |
Introduction by Sean Cliver
Rick Kosick. Okay, that sounds a little dramatic, but I think that’s kinda the template here? Plus, we’re talking about RICK KOSICK, so why not? Anyway, where do I even begin? Or, for that matter, how do I even end? I’ve known Rick for about two-thirds of my life, which I think makes him family in the common law sense—albeit a very dysfunctional sort.
Rick first joined the rest of us misfits on that which was once known as Big Brother skateboard magazine in the fall of 1992. He was the flotsam left in the wake of Poweredge’s demise, so he started coming around the office of our fledgling rag in Torrance and finally decided that he would shoot full-time for us after assessing our program. That’s right, he made the decision. Little did he know where this fateful lark would take him in life.
The best way to describe our “staff” back then was like if we were a bowl of leftovers that got shoved in the way back of a refrigerator and forgotten about. There, in the darkness, we festered like a science experiment in a petri dish, documenting all the absurdities that took place on an issue-to-issue basis. In time, Kosick became the biggest character of us all, practically larger than life, and undeniably the most quotable person in the history of skateboarding. He was the original celebrity skate photographer long before Atiba Jefferson became ATIBA JEFFERSON.
Throughout it all, though—the fame, the riches, the glory—Rick always kept an eye trained on his photography and improving his skillset. Every issue presented a new challenge to try and one up himself on cover shots, portraiture, and inventive opening spreads, pushing him to create many of Big Brother’s most memorable images from throughout his 13-ish year stint with the mag.
To quote the man himself, “Who do people think of when they think of Big Brother? Me.”
—Sean Cliver
=O =O =O
CBI: I feel like all "skate photographers" start out as simply "skaters" in the beginning. Was that the case with you, too?
Kosick: Yeah, I grew up skating with my friends around Huntington Beach. We had a ramp in my friend’s backyard, and one day, I decided to borrow another friend of mine’s camera to take photos of them skating… because I knew that I wasn’t going to make it as a skater. It just wasn’t going to happen for me.
Yeah, I know how it is.
But I still wanted to be part of it somehow, too, you know? Part of the industry. And I figured photography just might be that avenue for me.
So yeah, I started shooting a lot and the photos were terrible, as you would expect, but I was having so much fun. It was like skating but also completely different, and I could still hang out at the ramp with my friends. Shooting photos was like this new creative outlet that was still tied to the thing I loved. It really sparked a fire in me.
Did you always have an interest in photography?
Not really. At first, it was just an extension of my love of skateboarding, but it expanded over time. God bless my mom. She allowed me to turn our downstairs bathroom into my own little darkroom. Because I had chemicals everywhere. Hanging negatives all over the place… the whole deal.
I learned it all. You kinda had to back then.
How old were you at this point?
I was in my early 20s.
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| early remy sratton |
It must’ve been great as an aspiring photographer to grow up in Orange County and have so much local talent around. Who were some early subjects of yours that we might know? I know you shot with Remy Stratton a lot early on, right?
Yeah, Remy is probably the only one from back then that you would know. As I grew as a photographer and started shooting with different people, I came across Remy through the scene or whatever. He lived a couple towns over and started hitting me up one day, like, “Hey, can you take some photos of me?”
He was still unsponsored at the time, but I always liked his skating. That was kind of the initial plan: Remy wanted to shoot with me and use the photos to hopefully get sponsored. This was back when you actually could get sponsored through photos, because nobody really had video cameras yet. But what made it even better is that Remy would steal photo supplies for me from his high school photography class, basically as payment. Like photo paper and chemicals, which was super helpful.
And it worked out! We got him on Skull Skates and G&S… We really got him going. It kinda got my career going, too.
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| mike smith |
I know you were primarily shooting around the O.C. and South Bay at this time. A lot of pools, backyard ramps, and Sadlands. Christian Kline was also in that mix, too. Is that what led you to Poweredge?
I’d actually met Alec Schroeder before that, who later went on to be the editor at Poweredge. He was only making zines at the time, so I started contributing to those. He also had a darkroom in his family’s house. An insane one, actually, out in Sierra Madre. I remember going over there a lot to print photos. He showed me how to put a halftone screen on the paper and shoot an image so it had the little dots on there. Doing that always made your photos look better whenever you Xeroxed them, which was a big thing with zines back then.
So yeah, I started shooting for his zine, and when Poweredge came around, he threw my name out to Larry and Chris Stevenson (R.I.P.) for a job. I became the darkroom guy at Poweredge. I was taking photos, too, but I was still so new and they already had Dan Sturt and Sin. They were their main guys, and rightfully so. Sturt was incredible. Back then, I was lucky to get a little black-and-white photo in there, if anything at all.
Do you remember your first published photo?
My first photo was of Rodney Cassel doing an andrecht in a pool.
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| rick's first published photo: rodney cassel |
Poweredge was an amazing mag, but also very small and clearly struggled at times to get by. What was it like to work there?
Behind the scenes at Poweredge was very dysfunctional. People were using substances and just not very professional, which kinda rolled over into the business side of things. It’s unfortunate because we put so much energy into that magazine. We really wanted to have a good product but not everyone was holding up their side of the bargain. It was frustrating and led to a lot of tension over time. I know Christian (Kline) was upset with a lot of things, because he was doing his best and completely sober. If you’re doing all of these things for the magazine and giving 100%, it’s only right for you to expect that from everybody else.
I’ll be honest, I actually thought it was Christian’s magazine until recently, because he always had so much stuff in there.
He was the guy they brought in first, and he did take it very seriously.
I just look at all that as a good learning experience. I definitely learned a lot of things at Poweredge that I’ve put to use throughout my career… and it was a lot of fun. There was just an awful lot of frustration that came along with it, too.
Was there an actual Poweredge office? Or was it more of a fly-by-night kinda thing?
No, there was an office. The first one was in San Pedro… near 7th Street, actually. Being so close to that spot worked out well for us, because we knew that we could always go there to skate and possibly shoot something real quick, if need be.
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| jeremy klein |
That makes a lot of sense, as it seemed like that spot was always in the mag. I always loved your Jeremy Klein fakie nosegrind cover there, too.
Yeah, I think that was my first cover. It’s funny because I don’t really remember too many details about that day, but there was something about the overall feeling in skateboarding at that time. I really don’t know what it was, but everything just felt so special back then. It was right at the end of that 80s run, before the economy came crashing down and the industry started to struggle… obviously, that’s what ended up killing the magazine, but it’s also hard to support a magazine that was ran so half-assed anyway.
But even though you were admittedly just starting out as a photographer there, you did get thrown right into the mix with some big name pros at the time. How was that? Any embarrassing flubs as a newbie?
Not really. Looking back, I knew enough to be quiet and just stay in my lane. I wasn’t trying to put myself out there so much, I just wanted to do the best I could. I knew that I was lucky to even be at some of those sessions, so I just tried to enjoy it and have fun.
Nobody ever yelled at me or anything. I guess I got lucky with that, but I think it had more to do with just doing what I was there to do. That’s really it. I mean, you always have to take what’s being presented to you at the time. It won’t always be the most glamorous thing at first, but you have to make the most of it.
Any good Sturt stories from back then? I imagine things could get pretty gnarly in your early days as a photographer with him around.
Honestly, not really. I just remember him being frustrated with management like everybody else. I didn’t really know Dan. Obviously, an incredible photographer, but he’s always been a mystery to me… to this day.
The thing about skate photography in this era is if you looked at all the different mags, which I did, everyone had their own shooting style. I mean, just look at Transworld. You’re flipping through and you see a Grant Brittain photo and it’s incredible. Then you see a Dan Sturt photo and he’s got a totally different approach that’s all his own and that’s incredible, too. Then you have O’s style of photography. Everyone had their own way of doing things and it really showed. I feel like that’s lost today.
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| dan peterka |
I agree 100%. There are a few standouts but it’s gotten very formulaic over the years.
Yeah, there’s just no vibe. But is that even a problem to the younger generation? Do they even care? I don’t know. Maybe people just don’t know how to develop their own thing.
There was an energy to these kids collectively exploring this relatively new thing. Sure, street skating was new, but I also remember seeing things like super close macro shots of wheels and trucks on coping. You’d never see that now.
Everything has become so homogenized. I hate to use that word, but it’s true. There are a couple guys out there who are really pushing the envelope and doing their own thing, which is always good to see, but the majority of photographers today seem to be playing it safe.
Obviously, skateboarding is so much more advanced and dangerous now. I feel like that probably plays into it. You don’t really want to risk ruining a shot when someone is literally putting their life on the line for a trick, but that’s what you have to do sometimes.
I get it, though. How are you going to approach somebody like Nyjah when they’re about to do some crazy rail?
“Hey, I want to test out this new approach for the still. Is that cool? Also, please try not to hit your head again. We don’t need another concussion.”
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| steve robert |
(laughs) I always liked that you seemed to focus on the up-and-coming World riders back then, like Jeremy Klein, Todd Congelliere and Ron Chatman.
A lot of that just came from living in the area. They were some of the best skaters around, so that’s who you wanted to shoot with.
I remember meeting Todd through Mike Smith one day and we just hit it off. I still see him to this day. He’s got a punk rock club in San Pedro.
Yeah, the Sardine. It’s super cool.
Yeah, Todd’s doing some great things, man. I have a series on my YouTube channel called “The Relentless Ones,” and I featured him on an episode. He just blows me away, because he’s got this punk rock club going, he’s in five bands, he has a record label and a distribution… and it’s all inside the Sardine. It’s incredible.
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| todd congelliere |
On top of being such a great skater back then, too. He’s easily one of my all-time favorite vert guys.
Yeah, I just watched an old video of his on Instagram and it was so rad how he skated back then. Just so advanced for the time, and you could tell. Not to mention that the ramp he skated back then was really crummy.
(laughs) Yeah, that ramp looked like shit.
But he knew how to rip it!
Todd was super fun, man. I used to have such a good time going over to his house and hanging out. Jeremy Klein would always be there, too. They were all friends back then. That was a special time.
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| a tiny photo of ron chatman. |
But how was shooting with Jeremy and Ron back then? Incredible skaters as well, but also quite the notorious pranksters, too.
Jeremy was really cool back then. It was kinda before what he eventually became, you know? I feel like he got so much more aggressive over the years… but it’s cool. I just feel like we were so productive back then, just knocking things out.
Things were a little different with Ron. Yeah, we got stuff done, but it wasn’t like shooting with Jeremy, even though they were very good friends. Ron changed a lot when he started hanging around Mark Gonzales. I don’t know if it was because he was so influenced by someone else’s personality or if that’s who he was the whole time, but it was like he became a completely different person. At times, It seemed like he was almost mimicking Mark.
I know people would often refer to him as “The Ronz”.
Well, they say if you hang around someone long enough, you start picking up their personality traits, and Ron seemed to be very influenced by Mark Gonzales… because Mark was awesome back then. He was everything.
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| mark gonzales |
Since we’re talking about Gonz, one image that has always mystified me is your shot of Mark skating a surfboard with trucks and wheels on Hosoi’s ramp? Do you remember that one?
Yeah, I actually had to sneak that photo. Because I was at Christian’s ramp and there were all these heavy hitters there. I wasn’t totally in with those dudes and was still very intimidated, so I was playing it safe, you know? As I said earlier, I’m not trying to overstep boundaries. Because something like that, you should probably ask before you shoot it… But I just thought it was so cool, man. I had to sneak a shot. I didn’t even say anything; I just held my camera up real quick and popped the photo. He’s doing an ollie right? Yeah, I thought that one came out pretty good, considering.
Was he taking an actual run on that thing?
More like a bunch of fakies to get enough momentum and then he popped that ollie. That was about it.
Where’d that board even come from?
I have no idea. It was just at Christian’s house. Maybe Christian set it up? Seems like something he would have.
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| pat brennan (r.i.p.) |
Something that came up in another interview, Louis Carlton from Small Room cites Poweredge and you specifically for helping start the “little ad” trend in the early 90s. That you told him the Poweredge classified ads were the cheapest ads available but nobody really advertises there, which is why he took one out. Do you remember that at all?
(laughs) No, I don’t remember that, but I’m not surprised. I’m glad that’s how they got their start. You gotta start somewhere. I always thought that stuff was cool.
What ended up happening with Poweredge?
The economy killed it… on top of all the mismanagement that I’m sure was happening on our end. Because if you keep doing the wrong things, it will eventually catch up with you. So, when the big recession hit, that was pretty much it. There was no money coming in.
I know you eventually started at Big Brother, but that was still a little bit away. What did you do in the meantime here?
Yeah, I ended up doing a few things for Slap, but it was a short run. I’m grateful for what we did, though. I got a couple more covers out of it… Another Jeremy Klein cover and one with Chet Thomas, too. I was friends with Chet back then, and I was so happy to get a cover with him. He’s a great guy.
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| chet thomas |
So, how were you brought into the Big Brother mix? You started with issue #3, right?
Yeah, I just happened to meet those guys at the ASR Tradeshow. I was actually there to talk to the guys at High Speed, hoping to get on over at Thrasher, but it didn’t go very well. The vibe just wasn’t there and you could tell. But through a crazy turn of events, the universe worked its magic, and I ended up meeting Jeff Tremaine, Sean Cliver and Marc McKee. I can’t even remember how I got to talking with them, but it felt really good, and they asked me to shoot for them that day.
“Yeah, I’m definitely interested.”
It was just like they say, "Whenever one door shuts, another one opens.”
Thrasher didn’t work out, but Big Brother did. All in the same day. A potential opportunity that I’d honestly never really thought much about before… and those guys are still a big part of my life to this day.
But I have to imagine you having made inroads at World previously with Klein and Todd, right?
Not really. We were both in the South Bay, but I never went to the World office before working for Big Brother. It really just started that day. The opportunity presented itself, and it was probably the best decision I ever made. I could already tell that it was going to change my life.
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| jeremy klein |
Had you seen the magazine before? Because you’re starting on issue #3, the first issue barely even got out there.
Yeah, but it was the talk of the industry. There was such a focus on Rocco and his approach to doing business in skateboarding. People were afraid of him, and with Big Brother basically being his magazine, it made people afraid of us, too. But it was also pretty exciting.
Looking back on everything, did you really know what you were getting yourself into?
I did. I knew I was getting myself into something that could be a little dangerous. But again, with that danger also comes excitement, and I really didn’t have anything else going on at the time, either. There was nothing there for me with Slap. My time there was done. And it clearly wasn’t going to work out with me and Thrasher. I knew that I just needed to go for it.
So, I started shooting photos for them and everything fell into place. I got the cover on the first issue I worked on.
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| daewon song |
Daewon on the Little Beryl Banks.
Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Rocco let me buy whatever I wanted to for the shoot, so I bought a bunch of lanterns to light up the spot. Somehow, it all ended up working out perfectly.
Such a good photo.
Yeah, if I had to choose one Big Brother cover, that would probably be my favorite. I mean, anytime you get the opportunity to do a cover is always exciting. I like them all, but that Daewon cover is pretty special for me, with it being right when I started and everything.
When did you realize that shooting for Big Brother would require more than simply skate tricks? Because you’re out there shooting everything from naked ladies and cereal spoofs to Captain Stoney’s incredible bong collection.
That’s just how it evolved, you know? You handled things as they came up. Like, someone would get an idea, and it would just go from there. Trying to make the best stuff we could. We were laying the foundation as we went. When you have the kind of freedom we had to do whatever we wanted, for that long, it can take you in some pretty crazy directions. It’s just one thing after another.
Well, I’ve always been impressed by the range of stuff you shot back then. It had to keep things interesting for you, right?
At some point, I realized I had to become a better photographer, in general. Like, I knew that I needed to learn how to shoot more than just skate photos. Big Brother kinda forced this with the range of stuff I was being asked to shoot, but I also I knew had to learn how to do it. Like, I knew if I wanted to be a product photographer, I really needed to work on it.
One thing I look back on now that was a lot of fun, I really enjoyed learning how to shoot a portrait… And to do it in a way that really pushed the envelope with something cool and memorable. I knew that if I got just one compliment from someone on a photo — just one — I knew that I had hit it out of the park. Because you never really hear what people think, especially back then, because there was no internet. And in skateboarding, you never hear anybody say anything positive anyway. People are always so judgmental. They just like to talk shit. So, if one person told me they liked a photo, that was enough for me. That worked.
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| joey boy |
What’s a photo that you saw as an early win in this regard? Where you felt like you were beginning to move beyond “skate photographer” and really starting to figure shit out?
Probably the Joey Boy cover from when we went to Texas. I had them all line up in front of the stairs. It’s a beater trick, just an ollie over a couple steps, but I love the poses with that guy in the background and the little brother up front, flipping you off. That was a cool moment. Looking back, I feel like that’s when I was really starting to figure it out.
What was the typical process like in coming up with these ideas? And how collaborative was it?
Oh, all of the ideas for the magazine were very collaborative. It would typically start in the office with everyone goofing off, talking about whatever. Someone might bring up something they thought was cool, or possibly make a joke about whatever, and it would just go from there. Nothing was ever pushed too hard. Just a lot of talking and laughter.
Which is probably what made it so good.
It made things really good but could also make things really bad in certain instances. Because I was usually the only one out in the field, I always had to deal with the repercussions of all the shit we printed in the magazine. Meanwhile, everyone else was hiding back in the office. If they made a joke at someone’s expense, I was typically the one that had to deal with whoever was pissed… just because I was out there.
Like what?
The Washed-Up Skaters article was a big one. Still! I actually had to deal with someone because of that article just the other day! When did that article come out? 30 years ago!? This just happened!
Listen, Aaron Murray, if you’re reading this… I respect you, dude. Come on. I respect all you guys, and I appreciate everything you’ve given to the scene over the years. I love everything about Venice. I love it.
But I guess Aaron was upset that we brought up the Washed-Up Skaters article on the Jackass Podcast. Because Knoxville had asked me what article got people the most upset and that was my answer. I don’t really think anything about it, but then I’m at the 50 Years of Dogtown art show in Venice and he just started screaming at me, “You were talking about me on the Johnny Knoxville Podcast!”
(laughs) He just wanted to prove your point that he was upset!
It was 30 years ago, dude!
Yeah, he was smiling about it, but still…
He still brought it up.
It shows how much their contribution to skateboarding means to them. And I do respect that a lot, but jeez…
Because Venice was magical back then. It still is, but I remember back in the Big Brother days, if we couldn’t find anything to skate, we would always just go to the Pit. If nothing else was working, you could hang out at the Pit for a while and something would always pop up that you could shoot. Those were the days, man. I was getting paid to be a photographer and hang out at the beach all day. How cool is that? It was awesome.
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| tim gavin |
How did Frosted-Coated Penis Pops come about?
I want to say that was McKee’s idea. And for the record, it was “Sugar-Coated Penis Pops”.
(laughs) Noted.
That was a funny day. We shot that in one of the World Industries warehouses and here we are, making all these little penises out of clay. The “milk” was actually glue. And I remember having to scoop up a bunch of ants and putting them all over the cereal. Tim was brave enough to be part of it all.
Yeah, how’d you land on Tim for that?
I have no idea. He was probably the only one who agreed to do it.
I guess that is kind of a big ask. Did you make the clay dicks yourself?
No, Marc and Sean handled the clay dicks.
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| tim gavin and barbie |
(laughs) Speaking of Tim, did you shoot his Barbie graphic, too? The one in the little car?
Yeah, but it was just a simple photo on my part. Those guys photoshopped it all together. They’re the ones that really made it work.
What about Shiloh’s fake Black Entrepreneur cover?
I can’t remember how that one came about. I just remember shooting it with Shiloh in Century City one day. There was a mall over there that we used. Kinda random but Shiloh was into it and wore that suit. I thought it came out pretty cool.
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| shiloh greathouse |
How did Menace’s Enter The Pu-Tang come together?
Well, I already knew the girl who was featured in there. That Wu-Tang album had come out not too long before that, and again, it was just another one of those things that came up in the office. Like, “Hey, we should try to do mimic that album cover. Enter the Pu-Tang.”
The shoot itself came together really easy, in the sense that she was down to do it. And, of course, the skaters were into it. But because I knew her, I remember feeling a little protective of her as well. Not that it would’ve, but I didn’t want anything bad to happen. She was very nice.
Years later, she somehow contacted me and asked me not to publish that photo again. She has a daughter now and felt a little insecure about the situation. A little self-conscious… and I get it. I promised her that whenever I make my book, I won’t put it in there.
Were you comfortable with shooting nudity at first?
Yeah, you just had to be careful. And respectful.
How would you typically find these women to take off their clothes for a skateboard magazine? Were they typically models or something? Friends of yours?
It was always something different. You just had to go with whatever opportunity presented itself. As they say in life, when you don’t go looking, that’s when things happen.
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| shorty's steve olson |
(laughs) Of course, we have to get into Steve Olson’s Burning Bible cover.
Yeah, I shot that picture. That was us trying to go full steam ahead when we were just starting to get distribution on the newsstand, and it totally backfired. We thought it would be funny, but it didn’t seem like anybody else did.
It was originally supposed to be Billy Pepper in that photo but he backed out for obvious reasons. He didn’t really feel comfortable with the concept, so they got Steve Olson to do it instead. He ended up going through with it, and the issue came out, but it really caused a lot of problems. As I said, I’m the one out there shooting photos, so everybody complained to me about it. And honestly, I had some issues with it, too. I felt a little uncomfortable with it afterward. When you do something so offensive towards others and their beliefs, it can definitely get pretty crazy. I mean, we’re burning the Bible… but whatever.
Looking back… I don’t know, man. It’s just a fucking book. It means nothing. Do you think we were actually worshipping the devil? No, it’s a skateboard magazine.
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| art: mckee |
Was there a point when skate content took a backseat to these more extreme shenanigans? Did you ever think that maybe something went too far, or was that always just a part of it?
I think that was always just a part of it. For me, it depended on what jokes landed and who actually got offended. There were definitely times when something came out and somebody got really upset by it. And again, being the only one out in the field, it could get really stressful for me. Like, I remember Josh Swindell getting super upset about a few of the things that came out in the magazine.
The Mexican Prison stuff?
That and when he got arrested again. He ended up writing some really aggressive stuff towards me, which then got picked up and published in all these different publications. I was featured heavily in all of it… which, why me? I barely had anything to do with it! I only shot a couple of photos!
Long story short, I did end up running into Josh later, and he totally apologized for everything. I don’t know what he’s up to today; I hope he’s doing well, but it was definitely intense at the time. I found myself in the middle of all this drama, which is where I never really wanted to be.
The hardest part for me in all this was basically being treated as a character in the magazine. Because not only am I the one taking the fucking shots out there, I’m also the one getting made fun of all the time. It could really fucking suck, but I still stood up for those guys… what doesn’t kill only makes you stronger, as they say.
I know that after a while, people stopped wanting to be in the mag out of fear of getting wrecked.
Oh, after a while, I feel like everybody hated it. They were all too scared to be in there. It became really hard to get anybody to shoot for the magazine, because they didn’t want to be made fun of. Even the people that I really enjoyed working with, after a while, they even got a little hesitant.
Were there anything that was actually forbidden in Big Brother early on?
Oh, there was nothing forbidden in Big Brother.
Issue #3 also had the notorious “How To Kill Yourself” article…
I didn’t work on that.
Gotcha. What was Rocco’s role in the mag? And how much did his business interests play into all this?
Rocco was the bankroll. He was the one who funded it. Occasionally, he would ask us to do things, but for the most part, he was hands-off. We could do whatever we wanted.
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| foundation vs. rocco (not rick's photos) |
Were you involved in the infamous Richard Mulder flex in Big Brother #5 between Rocco and Swank? Did you shoot the photo of Richard speeding away in Steve’s Porsche?
No, I didn’t shoot that. I wasn’t involved in any of that… but that must’ve really sucked for Richard. Because he was just trying to skate, you know? I’m sure he didn’t sign up to be part of all that. There were a few things like that in the magazine over the years…
What else comes to mind?
That stuff with Jason Rothmeyer.
Oh yeah, the Foundation and Santa Cruz beef!
That was brutal! (laughs)
…I honestly forgot about that until just now. They really went at it!
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| foundation vs. santa cruz (also not rick's photos) |
Yeah, photoshopping Jason and Tod’s faces on those dudes fucking.
(laughs) Those guys really went from zero to 100 in a second. It was so terrible. Like, come on, man!
But you did shoot those Bitch ads, right?
Yeah, I did a couple things for Bitch.
Like the infamous one of Sal holding all the boards with the little dicks?
Yeah, I think so. I was just doing what I was told to do. That was a really dangerous time with everything that was going on. Things were moving very fast and out of control. Sal was walking into dangerous territory with drugs and stuff.
…It didn’t last long.
But did you feel any way about shooting that? Because you did know those guys before they left.
It was my job. But no, I didn’t really feel bad for anyone… although I wouldn’t have wanted to be Tim Gavin with that little penis board. (laughs)
But for the most part, all of those guys that left didn’t like us. Before they left to start their own company, I feel like it was always kinda weird between Plan B and Big Brother. They’d gotten upset about some things early on and didn’t want to be in the magazine, so they didn’t really mess with us. They didn’t want to play around, so for me to go shoot with them was never going to happen.
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| bitch vs. girl (rick's photo) |
What’s your best Sal Rocco story?
Oh man, there were so many. He was funny, man. I just remember walking with him through the warehouse. He would always talk shit, but he was always nice to me. He always gave Tremaine a hard time.
There was one time when I went to his house… He was actually trying to make a Bitch video, but the stuff they were filming was so dangerous. I remember him showing me everything and it was shocking. Like, it could never come out. And all that stuff ended up disappearing. All of that footage is gone, and for good reason.
What’s sad is that a few years after that, Sal was homeless. It was weird because where I was living in Redondo Beach, he knew the neighbors next door. I would see him on my block sometimes, like, “Why is Sal on my block?” But I would see him and he would look at me… and not say a word. He knew who I was. We knew each other pretty well back then, but he wouldn’t say a word. We never talked once.
I don’t know if he’s still with us today. If he is, I hope he’s doing better. I have no idea.
What type of stuff was in the video?
Just drug stuff. Cocaine. Big rocks of it. He was really getting into drugs back then. It wasn’t good, not for a skate video. He went too far.
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| captain stoney (r.i.p.) |
Who was Captain Stoney, and whatever happened to him?
Captain Stoney was somebody I knew from the Hollywood era. He was friends with a buddy of mine that I grew up with. They all shared an apartment together in Hollywood. He played music and was a big stoner advocate. I was still getting high at the time, too, so I would go over there and smoke pot with him. But Captain Stoney is no longer with us.
Aw, man… R.I.P. I just remember those bong reviews he used to do, which were actually pretty incredible.
Yeah, he did a really good job! He somehow landed his own little section in the magazine and was really into it. That stuff was fun.
But it did kinda take the wind out of everything when he didn’t win the Bong Olympics.
(laughs) Yeah, you gotta be rooting for the Captain in that scenario, but JT won. I don’t know how he did it. More practice, I guess? Who knows.
That was a funny one, because the Bong Olympics was my idea but Jeff hated it. He hated the whole concept of it, but we went ahead with it anyway. There used to be this crazy Native American guy that worked at World Industries named Fleck, he helped us build all the bleachers. I feel like that’s what really made it feel like an actual event, you know? I still remember Jeff showing up that day and seeing it all. He’s like, “Wow, this is pretty cool!”
You had a bunch of pros competing, too. I think Billy Valdes got third!
Yeah, Billy Valdes was there. Kareem and Clyde. All those guys participated. It was fun.
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| art mckee |
The first one was “fun", but I know you’ve described the second one as being super stressful.
Yeah, the second one wasn’t nearly as fun. We had a guy with a police scanner monitoring the door, making sure the cops weren’t about to come barging in. Since the second was in downtown Los Angeles, it just felt a little more dangerous. It felt like everything stuck out a little more down there, and we had all of this weed… but it worked. It was very stressful but we got through it.
But why was the second one stressful and not the first?
(laughs) That’s a good question! I don’t know. Maybe we just hadn’t thought it all the way through yet on the first one.
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| earl parker |
How was your experience with Earl Parker?
Earl was an interesting guy. We had some fun moments, but he didn’t last for very long at the mag. They ended up firing him because he just kept making mistakes and didn’t care. I think some mental problems might’ve weighed in, too. It was unfortunate.
What was your relationship with Spike like back then?
I didn’t really have a relationship with Spike back then. He was Jeff’s buddy. I always loved his photos, but I didn’t really get to know him until later on with Jackass.
But what made you decide to recreate his red Rick Howard cover with your own yellow version?
I have no idea. I want to say that was probably Jeff’s idea. I don’t really remember, but I wouldn’t have decided to do that on my own.
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| shiloh greathouse |
How did the World Park factor into in all this? That had to make things super easy for you, basically serving as a defacto studio.
I came in largely after the World Park was done…
Well, I did get to shoot a couple of things in there early on. The Big Brother office was originally at the World Park in the very beginning, but they moved out not long after I started.
The World Park was fun, but skating a park has always been kind of the last resort. That was always kind of the problem. As far as an image goes, you don’t really want to shoot something on a ramp. It just doesn’t look very good.
Probably the thing I disliked most about shooting back then was finding a spot to skate at… because you couldn’t really shoot at the World Park. At least, not very much. So, you’d always end up driving around with someone, going to different spots.
“Let’s check this spot out.”
“Oh, I can’t get anything there because so-and-so already did something there.”
It was so lame. I mean, I get it. You want to be original. This is your art, and you’re expressing yourself… but goddammit, man. These guys could make it so fucking hard sometimes.
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| kareem campbell |
I know you said the World Park was the last resort, but you did capture some of the best images there. I always loved your shot of Kareem’s big backside flip. That’s basically a perfect photo.
Thank you. Yeah, that Kareem photo was a little different, because we actually had that back wall painted specifically for the shot. The graffiti mural with “Campbell”? Yeah, that came out cool.
I remember that being on a poster with a model from Hustler on the flipside, which was also shot by you. Which one was more enjoyable to shoot?
(laughs) I’m gonna say all of it.
(laughs) Well played.
Anytime you get to have a camera in your hands and you’re getting paid to be creative is a good day.
I always loved your photos within the context of those Big Brother interviews, which became a staple in every issue.
I think I shot almost all of them until the later years. At one point, I got injured while filming for Jackass and that took a year out of me. I had to have reconstructive knee surgery. Dude, when you mess up your ACL, it takes everything out of you. Your confidence just disappears.
How’d you injure it?
We were at a fight club in Orlando, Florida. I was fighting Wee Man when Chris Pontius came into the ring and did a wrestling move on me. He pulled me the wrong way and tore my ACL. I had to have surgery, which was a big deal. That sucked.
Do you have a favorite interview you shot for the magazine?
It’s hard to choose just one. I think they all turned out great. I get the same question with Jackass, like, “What’s my favorite thing you ever filmed on Jackass?”
I don’t know. It’s all amazing. Whenever you get the opportunity to do something creative with your friends, it’s always fun. So, all of it is my favorite.
But was there anybody who wasn’t fun to work with on one of these interviews?
There is but I don’t want to say his name. This person was very difficult back then and threw me under the bus so fucking hard, so many times. He was a real dick. Like, I’d do something he didn’t like and he would call the office to complain to Jeff about me. And then I’d get yelled at, like, “Great. Thanks.”
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| fabian alomar |
How was shooting Fabian Alomar’s interview with the whole neighborhood out there?
That was pretty scary. And I knew going in that it was gonna be dangerous, so I was super stressed the whole time. I remember driving over to his house and there were all these hardcore gangster guys. They’re all looking at me, like, “Who is this guy?”
Fabian had to intervene, like, “Hey, this is Rick. He shoots for the magazine. He’s a really cool guy.”
Having those guys in there was all Fabian’s idea. He’s the guy who went about gathering up everyone for the shoot. He really wanted all that in his interview. But we’re maybe two shots into the shoot, and this big fight breaks out. They all start fighting each other, for real. Right in front of me. And I’m freaking out because I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Luckily, Fabian broke it up, and we finished getting what we needed. But after that, I was out of there, man.
I didn’t know about the fight. I just figured everything was kosher because Fabian was there.
No, I guess there were members of three different gangs in that shot. That doesn’t jive.
That whole Echo Park area was wild back then, man. It’s so gentrified now, people don’t really understand what it was like in the 90s. That neighborhood was dangerous. There were gangs everywhere. You really had to watch everything around you. Like, I remember shooting photos with Chuck Wampler a few times and he lived over there. He always told me how he’d get chased by gangs when he was skating home from Christian Hosoi’s house. You really had to be careful over there.
Well… then he got shot at Lockwood.
Yeah, then he got shot at Lockwood. I remember when Lockwood first started to become a thing, I was one of the first photographers to go over there. It was so sketchy, man. That neighborhood is still a little sketchy, but nowhere near what it was.
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| gabriel rodriguez (r.i.p.) |
Was that the sketchiest experience you ever had while shooting?
No. I remember a gang rolling through the Graffiti Pit one day while I was there. Luckily, my spidey sense had started tingling, and I was able to put all my gear away. I feel like I stood my ground and they ended up walking away, but it got pretty tense there for a moment.
What did they do?
There was, like, ten of them. Just a local Venice gang. They all walked through the Pit while we were there. You could tell they were looking to do something. Just from being around these types of situations before, I knew enough to put my shit away and have my backpack on, but I was ready to do whatever I had to do.
Good for you, Rick!
You gotta pay attention, man. And know how to read the room. There have been so many situations like that where you just have to stay alert and figure it out.
You remember Johnny Lee Countee, right? I had to muster up the courage to go down there and shoot his interview… and he lived in the hood, man.
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| johnny lee countee |
He was in Compton, right?
It wasn’t Compton but close to it. Just a very bad neighborhood, so I really had to figure things out and come up with a plan. I realized that if I was going to do it, I would have to get there super early in the morning while everyone was still asleep. And I knew that I had to go by myself. Because if I came rolling in there with a bunch of white dudes, in that neighborhood, we were going to be looking for trouble. So yeah, I went down there solo… but it worked out great. I shot it all with Johnny by myself, and it was awesome. I got to know this really cool guy who was just so passionate about skateboarding. He really loved it, and I loved that energy. I enjoy giving those types of opportunities to people who are doing it for the right reasons. They’re not trying to make a career out of it or anything. Johnny skated for the pure passion of skateboarding. And he was good! He was really good.
So, the interview comes out and it’s great, but then I realized that I’d have to go back down there and shoot the video part… Because he had that part in Number Two. So, I had to go and do the same thing all over again, but it was worth it, man. Nothing bad ever happened, and I think we ended up with something really special.
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| paulo diaz and friend |
For sure. What about that photo of Paulo Diaz ollieing the garbage can in front of that lady for his interview? Such a great shot.
It’s funny you bring that one up because someone just sent that to me on Instagram. I guess they found the location of that shot and were reminiscing about it.
That was just one of those moments. A cute little Jewish lady putting her trash can away and Paulo cracking an ollie. It’s a simple thing, but effective.
And that was real, right? She wasn’t posed or anything?
No, that was real. We saw her walking out, and Paulo decided to go for it anyway. That was probably going to be his only chance to get it with her standing there. And I was able to get her in the shot, too.
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| gino iannucci |
These next two are some pretty deep cuts, but you shot two really good Gino Iannucci photos from an era when he really wasn’t getting much coverage. There’s a fisheye backside heel…
Oh yeah, that was when he was still skating for Black Label. Where his foot is super close to the lens? I remember that shot because it was the only one of those photos that looked like that. I just happened to shoot that one a little differently.
I feel like that photo could get published today. It’s very Matt Price.
Thank you, but honestly, it was more of a happy accident.
You also shot him doing a switch flip over a picnic table in Los Feliz for his interview, which is another basically perfect shot.
I think I know the photo but I don’t really remember anything about it.
The thing about those interviews is that everyone had their own process with shooting stuff. It was all very independent, which meant it basically came down to whenever they felt like skating. If those guys didn’t want to go out and do it, they wouldn’t. And I always felt like that while they were all very good and able to get things done, they didn’t seem very ambitious. There never seemed to be any sense of urgency there, like, “Go! Go! Go!”
That’s how I was. I just wanted to get things done. Let’s go out there and kick some ass. After all, I got deadlines and other shit I have to do, you know? But everybody is different. Maybe Gino was just a little more laid back than I was? But he was definitely really good. When he was on, he was on.
It reminds me of this story I heard Rick Rubin tell about recording AC/DC. I guess Rick was the same way I was, like, “Let’s go! Let’s do this!”, but Malcolm was more patient. He’d always be like, “Yeah, we’ll get to it,” which was basically Malcolm’s way of telling Rick to wait until they were ready. They wanted to wait because they didn’t want to have to do it a million times. If they weren’t feeling it, they weren’t feeling it. They only wanted to do it when they felt like they were on, and I feel like Gino was kind of the same way with his skating. Just do it when he feels like he wants to do it.
I had to learn how to respect that with a lot of these guys.
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| gino iannucci |
What’s the most film you ever wasted on a trick?
Fuck… I can’t really say one person. It really wouldn’t be fair because this was right at the beginning of more technical skating. I shot with several people where I would go through a lot of film trying to get something. I actually used to get in trouble with Larry Flynt all the time. I’d get these phone calls, like, “Why are you using all of this film?”
I’d have to explain that these tricks usually don’t happen right away, and we’re trying to shoot sequences, too, which use more film. Because I would blow through, like, 30 rolls, just to get one sequence. That was common, but it’s not the skater's fault. This stuff isn’t easy. That’s why we’re shooting it.
What were your thoughts on video grab sequences? I feel like Big Brother was the first mag to really start using those.
Yeah, even though they didn’t look very good. We just didn’t have much of a choice. Skateboarding got so technical that shooting this stuff on film became almost impossible. It got to be way too expensive.
What was Big Brother’s philosophy on printing bails?
I don’t really recall us printing any bails. I don’t think we did.
You’d fix sequences, though? I’m thinking of this one Mike Carroll sequence article, specifically.
Yeah, but I think everybody did that… But no bails.
As you had a quotation cited in almost every issue, how real were those?
What are you saying? That I’m the most quotable guy in Big Brother? (laughs)
(laughs) I actually think you are!
I think it’s just because I used to run my mouth so much back then. Even today, I’ll say something and immediately think to myself, “Oh, that would’ve been a quote in the magazine!” (laughs)
But those were all real?
Yeah… You can just call me a philosopher.
(laughs)
Nah, it just came from being young and saying stupid shit. I wouldn’t really think about what I was about to say until I already said it, and then it was too late. It was already out there and going into the magazine, like, “Oh fuck.”
This came up earlier, but seriously, how did you deal with being the brunt of so many jokes over the years? That had to have been tough, especially being so young.
It was tough, man. I would get really upset sometimes. I just didn’t really know how to accept it, because I also knew everyone would see it. And what was weird is that just because those guys treated me like that, other people who I didn’t even know felt like they could treat me like that, too. I had to learn how to navigate through all of that bullshit.
Was there anything in the mag that went too far and really hurt your feelings?
I’m sure there were some things. The Letters section could get pretty rough. They were always printing photos of people that looked like me, pretending that it really was me posing naked or something. I remember telling them, “Why are you putting this in there, saying it’s me? This is fucked up!”
That was the stuff I didn’t like, because it wasn’t true. I can deal with the stupid shit I said or did, but that wasn’t even me.
McKee said the photo of you in the S&M cage was his most awkward moment at Big Brother. What was the story there?
That was me participating to get us the fucking story. Somebody else was supposed to do this whole S&M thing for us, but they backed out, so I did it. It was really no big deal.
But there was also that Heath Kirchart lipslide cover, where Hook-Ups bought an ad in the next issue with the same trick reshot. That one seemed kinda gnarly.
Yeah, that Jeremy Klein was making fun of me because the cover wasn’t to his liking. I don’t know, man. I didn’t really care for that.
So that was real? That’s pretty vicious.
Exactly. That was just him being a dick.
Did you shoot the second shot, too?
No, they went back and shot it again with somebody else. I don’t know who took it.
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| heath kirchart |
What’s the worst you ever blew a photo? Whether you’re timing was off or some equipment fucked up…
Probably Tony Hawk. Something happened and I missed the shot. It was a sequence for his interview, and then he ended up slamming really hard on it. I remember having to ask him to do it again, and he looked at me like, “You fucking asshole.”
He didn’t say that, but I could tell. It sucked.
It’s been said that the golden age of Big Brother goes up to issue #27. Do you agree?
That’s very possible. I think Big Brother died when it got bought by Larry Flynt because it changed so much. There were all these rules now because we were suddenly under a microscope. All of the things that we used to be able to do, we couldn’t do anymore. Suddenly, there was all this censorship. We still had some fun moments, but the magazine kinda lost its luster after that. It just wasn’t the same.
Was his censorship of the magazine simply for business reasons? For circulation?
He censored the magazine to protect his company, because he was a pornographer.
Yeah, but he was still putting out Hustler.
But that’s an adult magazine. There’s a difference. Big Brother was a skateboarding magazine. A magazine made for kids.
…which is why you started using the little smiley guy on stuff.
Exactly. Big Brother was not an adult magazine.
What role did you play in the Big Brother videos, besides Crap cover model?
I created a few sections, like the Chris Gentry section. And the one section with the big radio and Kangol cap, I made all that.
Oh yeah, with Mike York. That was great.
Yeah, that was fun. Obviously, the part with Johnny Countee. And just some of those little moments on tour, but that was about it.
Did you like filming?
Oh yeah, that was a bit of foreshadowing of what was to come for me.
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| mike york |
For sure. I mean, it’s basically those videos and CKY that combined to make Jackass. But how aware of CKY were you back then?
Of course, I knew CKY! Come on!
(laughs) I have to ask! I’ll admit that I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time.
When you’re making a magazine, you have to be aware of everything that’s going on in the industry. We definitely knew about Bam and CKY… and I’ve heard all of the complaints. People claim that Jackass is because of CKY, and I just want to set the record straight: It is not.
No way. Big Brother was way before that.
Jackass is because of Big Brother and Jeff’s affiliation with Spike Jonze. Those guys and Knoxville made Jackass. The CKY guys were just asked to be a part of it. Jackass was because of Spike Jonze, Jeff Tremaine and Johnny Knoxville… but also, Bam and CKY were a big part of it.
How did the success of Jackass affect your work at Big Brother?
At the time, I was just so burnt out on skateboarding. Getting those opportunities to film Jackass on the weekends was so much fun. Just being able to laugh and have such a good time with everyone… and it was exciting! It was something new. We were able to make all this stuff without getting kicked out of everywhere. And there was no dealing with that whole “I can’t skate here” thing. With Jackass, you just did it. It was a really fun time. The best of times.
I remember the show having an almost overnight success. And I also remember you being featured quite prominently in those early episodes.
Oh, it was massive. I remember walking into a coffee shop back then and everybody kept staring at me. It was like, “Woah… okay.”
Obviously, people were paying attention to the show. I just don’t think I realized how big it was at the time. This was before the internet, too.
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| josh kasper and friends |
Is that why you left the magazine in 2004? You were more hyped on the Jackass stuff?
I left the magazine because I was fired.
Oh wow. I didn’t know that’s how it went down.
Yeah, Dave Carnie fired me. No one was getting along. The magazine was dying. Advertising was running thin and nobody wanted to work with us. Nobody wanted to shoot with me because of what the magazine turned into. Dave thought it would be a good idea to fire me, so they did.
I left and went to work on Wildboyz, and a few months later, Flynt pulled the plug on the magazine. It was done.
I knew you were out right before it ended, but I didn’t realize you got fired.
Yeah, it was a bummer but I kinda knew it was coming. The writing was on the wall. No one was talking to each other in the office and the energy was terrible. When the day came, I was a little offended at first, but it was probably the best thing that could’ve happened to me. I was sick of it.
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| pontius and kosick, photo: cliver |
What was your official role at Jackass and Wildboyz?
I ran camera, whatever term you want to give that.
Wildboyz was such a great experience for me. I learned a lot and was able to travel around the world to these exotic countries. I got to experience different cultures and see these cool animals. And once again, laugh with my friends. It was the best experience ever.
It definitely sounds better than hanging out in a schoolyard somewhere.
Looking back on the Big Brother days, I think what really made it hard for me is that I didn’t get many days off. There were always deadlines. I think if I had been able to take a day off, maybe once a week, it would’ve saved me from such severe burnout.
You can only go like that for so long.
What’s interesting is that after I left Big Brother, I didn’t pick up a still camera again for a few years. I did not fucking care. I was over it.
How would compare those early Big Brother days to the success of Jackass? Which means more to you personally?
I would say the early Big Brother days. It was a bi-monthly magazine, so you could put a little more into it. That’s what made it so special. More freedom, no restrictions. Nobody telling us what we couldn’t do. It was more “organic”, if that’s the word you want to use.
What’s wild to me is that people make such a big deal about those early days of Big Brother, but it’s circulation couldn’t have been very large… Probably less than Poweredge!
I couldn’t answer that question. I don’t really know the numbers and I never really believe people when it comes to that stuff anyway, but Big Brother and Poweredge were both very small. Honestly, every skate magazine has been relatively small, but it’s all smoke and mirrors when it comes to that shit. They’re never going to be honest about their numbers.
Granted it was a different time, but what do you cringe at the most from Big Brother whenever it’s brought up today?
I don’t think there was anything cringey in there. I honestly think it’s cringey whenever somebody has a problem with it. There’s nothing I look back on and think was all that lame.
There’s nothing you wouldn’t want to print again?
Actually, yeah! All the fucked-up shit they wrote about me! None of that! To answer your question, any of the fucked-up misinformation about me that wasn’t true. Out.
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| jason acuna |
(laughs) Did you realize the impact that Big Brother was having at the time? Or were you just having fun?
We were having fun, but yes, there were definitely moments when I could tell that it was making an impact. Like when Larry Flynt sent out the wrong magazines and my cover with Jason Acuna dressed up as an Oompa Loompa made it onto Jay Leno. That’s when you know you’re really doing it.
Yeah, how did that go down?
Larry Flynt sent the wrong magazines out to subscribers. Something went wrong with the subscriptions and their magazines got switched up. Kids who subscribed to Big Brother ended up receiving the worst magazine, “Taboo”, while others got Big Brother instead of what they were subscribed to. It caused this big stir, and Jay Leno talked about it one night. I got to see my cover on national television. So yeah, it was obviously getting out there.
What do you see as Big Brother’s legacy in 2026?
I’ve always said that Big Brother was the internet before the internet. It just let everything go. You got to see all the stuff you weren’t supposed to see, and that’s what made it exciting. I don’t know if that’s a legacy story…
But it’s a fair point, because Big Brother wasn’t just all crazy shit. I remember some pretty great movie and book recommendations in there, too.
Totally. It’s just that the crazy stuff always makes more of an impression.
The legacy comes from a group of friends having the opportunity to do whatever we wanted to and we did it. And that’s what made it special.
So, what’s next for you, Rick? You said that you’re working on a book?
Yes, I am currently working on my photography book. I won’t reveal the style that it’s going to have, but it’s gonna be really fun. I’ll definitely be telling some stories in there. I’ve been working on it all summer and it’s coming along really nice.
I don’t know exactly how it’s going to come out. I haven’t talked to any publishers yet, and I’m not sure that’s the route I’ll end up taking. I might just publish it myself and do a few small runs. Yeah, I’ll be doing all the work, but it might be worth it. I’m not quite sure. We’ll just have to wait and see.
Beyond that, I’ve been making videos on my YouTube channel. I have a series called “The Relentless Ones” about people who are following their passions in life. I also have “The K-Files”, which is kinda like my podcast or vlog, whatever you want to call it. It’s just a little wrap up of what’s been going on in my life for the last month or so… just whenever I feel like doing it. I produce and edit everything. It’s fun.
Yeah, I checked out a few episodes and I liked what I saw. As we wrap this up, what would you say has been your proudest moment in skateboarding, and your biggest regret?
Oh, I don’t have any regrets with skateboarding. I look back on all that as a really good time, and I’m grateful to have learned how to become a photographer through skateboarding. It taught me a lot. Sure, there have been some ups and downs, but life is always going to throw those at you. You just have to learn how to ride it out. And with skating, it’s been great. I’m so stoked to have been a part of it. I look back on those moments, like spending the day at the beach… those are the days, you know? Or even learning how to talk my way out of getting a ticket? I actually got really good at that and still use it to this day!
(laughs) Is that your proudest accomplishment?
Maybe! (laughs)
The thing about skateboarding is that it really taught me how to start a project and finish it. That was probably the biggest lesson I got: Starting and finishing. If you want to do something, just go out and do it… But get it done. Don’t let it drag on forever. Just do your best and have fun.
thanks to jaime owens, sean cliver & rick for taking the time.
