chrome ball interview #166: rick howard

 Chops sits down with Rickk for Closer #5

photo: colen

Originally published in Closer Skateboarding #5

Introduction by Brian Anderson

Rick Howard. An extraordinary street skater with a calm-but-powerful style and tons of ramp skills tucked neatly inside his back pocket. Most of us first saw Rick in the early Blockhead videos, skating the rough and snowy streets of British Columbia that he and his friends had transformed into their own juvenile playground. It was a setting ripe with security confrontation, as we all saw play out in so many videos. But at a time when jump ramps and railslide bars were fading into obscurity, a handful of people, Rick included, were doing new tricks on ever-evolving obstacles like the nice marble stairs and beautiful ledge spots found in downtown Vancouver. He could also skate spines, hips, a bit of vert, manual pads, handrails and EG in SD. Wow! From the tricks he put into those VHS videos for all of us to see, to the style of clothes he thankfully wore, Rick was a breath of fresh air without even trying. A taller fella with a light crouch… What can I say? The guy looked comfortable on a board. Smooth. 

He continued to have great parts in Plan B videos before he and his three friends started the two supergroups: Girl and Chocolate. The first in 1993 and the latter, ’94. Always a great sense of humor, that Rick. For example, when he heard that I was wearing Fourstar clothes, he called me up and said, “I heard you like our racquetball gear. What’s your size and address? We’ll send you some stuff.” I was flattered. He went from being one of my favorite skaters growing up to a peer, and then teammate and friend.

He’s a company owner who toured right along with us. The same economy flights from LA to Sydney, a double dozen Euro barges, Japan… even China times ten. Fighting jetlag mid-demo, just like the rest of us. A real king of the road trip. Skating 100º Motel 6 asphalt parking lots in Middle America. Sarcastic as hell but a true team player-skater, always helping out with filming us skate while getting some tricks for himself as well. And he’s great at talking security into giving us a few more tries when getting kicked out. 

So, if you see a speeding 15-passenger van with socks flapping out of a rolled-up window, beware… Howard may be in there. Continuing his contribution of priceless experiences to not only skateboarding, but the world. He’s joined us here to recall and remark on how he got all the way from BC’s Seylynn Skatepark to where he is today. I just want to say thank you, Cory, for all you’ve done for the sidewalk surfing and racquetball communities. 

Love, 

Bri-Bri

=O =O =O

How do you react to the old adage of “people just want to see you skate” when it comes to footage?

Oh, man… Yeah, that’s a tricky one. I can see why people would say that but obviously, I’m protective of what I put out there. Because it still feels good to go out and skate, but sharing is a totally different thing. I like seeing other people do that, but for me, personally, I get really self-conscious. I don’t know why that is. I’m pretty self-conscious about my regression over the years. I’m not really trying to show that off, you know? 

But there are moments of joy that get captured sometimes. Something that feels good. And that’s also something I’ve been working on recently: letting go of my ego. Because I’ve learned that I’m just robbing myself of having fun with my friends and doing what I love to do. I’d just rather have the camera focused on other people. If someone happens to film me, great, but I’m not going on too many filming missions these days. 

I’m flattered that people still want to see me skate, but I don’t know… It’s a hard one. 

photo: colen

I imagine you’ve had this same conversation with other riders countless times over the years, right? 

Right. And there are people who I actually want to see “just push”, too. Like Mark Gonzales. I get that. But if we’re going to put something out, I’d rather show how awesome Simon, Niels and the crew are. I want to show what they’re doing. I’ve had plenty of time to show off already. 

I do see how the people I admire go about doing it. I don’t know if that’s rubbed off on me, but you rarely see a Julien Stranger, Jake Johnson or Heath Kirchart clip and whenever you do, it’s always something interesting. Their elusiveness makes it special, not that I’m comparing myself to those guys. 

But you get the same reception. Your three flip on that bank last year was a highlight of the summer. 

(laughs) I love the support. It means a lot, for sure. But I’d much rather see one my friend’s three flips. We’ve all seen plenty of my three flips by now. You don’t need to see it look worse than it used to. 

Still looks good to me. 

Sometimes I’ll surprise myself, whenever I’m feeling good. I don’t mind filming, not at all, but sharing is an entirely different thing. I’m not good at that. 

How often are you skating nowadays? 

We have a little skatepark at the office that keeps me pushing around. And we’re currently working on a Lakai project, so I’ll jump on those trips, too. Not to film, really. Just to get out and cruise around. The guys were just in Dallas last weekend and I hopped on that trip, which was fun. 

I honestly don’t get to skate as much as I’d like to. Usually by the time those trips are over and I have to go back to reality is when I’m just starting to feel comfortable again. Because I’m on the board more during those trips, I start to realize how it could feel again, but then it’s back to distractionville at home. I never go that long without skating, though. 

photo: spike

So going back now, how did you first get sponsored by Blockhead, all the way up in Canada? 

Well, I started in ’85. There was a vert contest in Vancouver around that time called “Boarder Wars”. That got me sparked. Like, Chris Miller was there. Just seeing professional skateboarding like that for the first time was super exciting. And I started skating shortly after that. 

Somehow, I knew that you had to enter contests back then, so I did that for a while and then eventually made a sponsor-me tape. My friends and I would rent a video camera from 7-11 and film each other. Some of that footage actually made it into my first Blockhead part. But yeah, that’s how I got on the team. I sent in my tape. 

I don’t think they were totally onboard with me at first. This was still the early days, back when Blockhead was a really tight crew in Sacramento. Maybe the team manager wasn’t into me or something? I don’t know. But I feel like since I was also doing pretty good in contests that they almost had to sponsor me. That’s kinda how it was back then. So I guess you could say that it was a combination of both my tape and contests, actually. 

Did you send your tape anywhere else? 

Yeah, I sent a tape to Santa Monica Airlines, too. Just them and Blockhead. 

SMA was incredible back then.

Yeah, I didn’t really think it would happen but I had to try. That team was insane. Natas, Julien…

Of course, I was always a fan of the Bones Brigade, but there were already so many guys in Vancouver who were sponsored by Powell. I didn’t think there was a spot for me. But I also had another friend on Schmitt Stix as well, so I knew that it was possible to get sponsored. I just had to get good enough.

Blockhead was always super interesting to me. They seemed to have such a different way of looking at things. A different sensibility. They were never too jock-y or anything, which I liked. It had a good spirit. 

But yeah, I took a greyhound bus down to Bonsall shortly after getting on the team, basically to meet Dave (Bergthold) and make it official. He ended up letting me stay for a while and became like a surrogate uncle to me. I lived at the Blockhead ramp, which was fun. That’s when things really started to get underway for me.  

That’s how Splendid Eye Torture came about?

Yeah, that would’ve been the only way I’d have California stuff in there, because I was down there with Dave. I had that and my sponsor-me footage from back in Vancouver. A lot of footage on the mini ramp in those videos, too.  

But videos were a lot different back then. It was more about capturing the session, like going to session a junkyard for a day or something. Someone would gather whatever footage you had and that was your part. It definitely wasn’t like filming for Plan B would be later on. Not that Blockhead was like Plan B at all, really.

I do remember those videos being a lot more fun, but everything was all so new for me, too. Being sponsored and suddenly living in California. Being able to skate 12 months out of the year at all these famous spots. It was exciting to be out in the sunshine and not stuck in some underground parking garage for the winter. 

Looking back, that part isn’t much. A couple nose wheelies and some lipslides. But at the time, street skating was still so new. The crazy progression hadn’t really started yet. 

But you were leading the charge. That boardslide down School Q was insane for ’90. 

That was totally spur of the moment. We’d been skating the banks and were actually on our way out. I don’t know what got into me… I’m not normally a boardslide guy. I don’t think I’ve boardslid anything that big since. But yeah, we were leaving and Zak (Grove) threw it out there. Just one of those spontaneous moments. I was lucky to have a camera around. 

I feel like this was pre-“battle” era. 

Yeah, it must’ve happened pretty quick because I’m not good at breaking my falls. I guess I got lucky. Because it’s almost kinda boardslide to feeble-y, you know? That rail is so steep, you had to be ready to get off immediately. 

Splendid Eye Torture set the stage but Adventures in Cheese really seemed like a statement, with you going pro shortly thereafter. 

I don’t know if it felt like a “statement” at the time, I’d just been progressing a lot and was feeling good on my board. If anything, it was shortly after that part, when they gave me a board, that I felt like I was really starting to do something. 

But Adventures in Cheese was fun. A lot of Eden Gardens in that one. It was just an exciting time in street skating. Switch was just starting to come around. You’d hear all these rumors about stuff, like what Mark Gonzales was doing at the time. And being down south, there were always a lot of H-Street guys around. Brian Lotti and Jovontae. I remember being heavily influenced by those guys… like stand-up nosegrinds. Not only tricks but how they did them, too. Everybody was kinda feeding off each other. It was still those early days of trying to figure everything out. 

I didn’t think about you being in that H-Street mix but it makes sense. 

Yeah, that’s kinda how I ended up skating for Plan B. Because there was the H-Street House and you’d also see those guys at the nearby schools. I ended up meeting Tim Gavin at a CASL contest and that’s how I got into the mix. I remember him being like, “Yeah, come on by! We got a van. You can do anything you want to this thing. It’s fun!”

“Really? Anything?”

I came over and we ended up kicking out the windshield that day. Just total brats. 

That’s how I got to know Carroll, too. He came down for that summer from San Francisco.

Would you see Hensley a lot? 

Hensley was always pretty elusive. I remember it always being a treat to bump into him at a spot. Because you’d always hear about something he just did somewhere. That was one of the cool things about Plan B early on was being able to see his footage. But yeah, there were a couple sessions with Hensley. He was intimidating, man. For real. 

Yeah, I was wondering how you dealt with all this as a relative outsider. 

As a hyper Canadian kid that nobody knew? Yeah, it could be intimidating at times, because everyone was so good. But that’s why I moved to California to begin with, to be around that level of skating. I wanted to see it all for myself. 

How’d the “Rick Flip” go down? 

Well, heelflip shuv-its had just started coming around. And people were already doing fakie big spins. They called them “My Dicks” at the time. We just combined them, you know? Just one of those ideas that got documented on film. 

Everyone likes to say that I did it first but other people were trying them, too. There’s no way of knowing who did it first and who cares anyway? Because I have to imagine Ocean Howell or Markus Wyndham doing one before me. Those guys were so technical. Maybe they just never filmed it and I did? And I’m sure Rodney Mullen did one way before everyone else… like every other flip trick. 

At this point, they should call it the “Daewon Flip”. 

They could always call it the “Markovich Flip”. 

(laughs) Right? Yeah, we were both doing it around the same time. Go ahead and call it the “Markovich Flip”, it doesn’t matter to me. I don’t know why I got tagged with it. 

Do you know that story? 

I’d like to hear you tell it.

(laughs) We were out at some bar in San Diego. And I wasn’t calling it that, by any means. I’ve never called it a “Rick Flip”, it’s always been other people. But he definitely let me know that night that he thought he did it before me. I think he was a little buzzed, though. I don’t think it ever came up again. 

When I interviewed him, he did say that you did it first. He even cited coverage of yours. 

That’s funny. We were all so young back then… Everyone’s all grown up now so we can laugh at this stuff. But Kris has been ripping lately. We’ve been giving him shoes. 

 

Why Pepe Le Pew drinking root beer? 

Man, I wish I knew. Maybe because I have a good case of IBS? I can get pretty gassy. There’s really no story, other than I used to drink a lot of root beer and had a lot of gas. But I’m stoked to have a graphic in that classic illustrated style Ron Lemen blessed me with. 

There is that recent Omar Hassan article where he said you stunk…

Right!?! I hit him up after that, like, “Are you serious?!?”

He goes, “Yeah, I told some other stories, too, but that’s the one they stuck with for some reason.”

Come on! I honestly don’t think I smelled that bad. He must’ve made that up. Because I’ve always at least kinda cared about my hygiene. There’s no way I smelled the worst.

…Although, I did shit myself in one of those Blockhead videos. I can’t remember which one it is but I had to ditch my boxers one day while out filming. There’s a clip in there that only myself and a couple other people know about. I’m wearing some Skate Rags shorts and if you pause it, you can see a shit stain.

(laughs) Didn’t you almost get Jovontae and Carroll on Blockhead at one point? 

That’s right! I gave Jovontae some boards and he seemed pretty sparked on it for a second! I forgot about that. I don’t think Carroll ever rode any boards but Jovontae was definitely curious… but at the time, he’d ride whatever, so who knows? But that would’ve been amazing.

How did Plan B enter the picture? 

Well, there used to be these amazing contests in Europe every summer. And having just turned pro, of course, I wanted to go over there and check it all out. I was doing pretty okay in contests back then… Actually, I think Rudy qualified first in Munster that year. He was on a good one. We always used to battle each other at contests when we were younger. 

Danny was also there and I feel like this trip was when the idea for Plan B really got going. He approached me about it in Munster, like, “Hey, I’m going to be leaving H-Street with Mike Ternasky and we’re gonna start a new company.”

I remember him naming off a few of the guys and I couldn’t even believe it. 

“When we get back, there’s going to be a meeting down south and you should be there. I’d like you to ride for it.”

I was blown away. Danny Way is hitting me up to skate for this new company with Matt Hensley and Sean Sheffey? Those were some of the heaviest names at the time. I couldn’t even believe it. 

Unfortunately, it also meant that I had to quit Blockhead, which is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do. Because Dave had given me everything. I think I even quit while I was still in Europe for Blockhead, which is super lame. I guess I was just excited, but I could’ve handled that better. My etiquette wasn’t always the best back then. 

It was still early in the process so we had to keep it all secret, but I remember coming back home and going to that meeting. It was unbelievable. Plan B was definitely something that I wanted to show up for. With Mike’s vision for the company and how he approached videos, it felt like a new challenge for me. Because Blockhead had such a unique way of looking at things, I wanted to see if I could actually do it this other way. I was curious about possibly going about my skating differently with Plan B. 

How come you weren’t listed in the original “ten pros” ad? 

That’s right, I wasn’t! I don’t know why I wasn’t in there. Maybe they wanted it to be like a little surprise or something? I don’t know…  Maybe I wasn’t supposed to get on the team!

(laughs) Did the Rocco/Balma beef factor into this at all? That was a thing at the time, with Blockhead Dave even getting into the mix with his own Rocco diss ad. 

Did he? I don’t remember that! 

I mean, Steve poked fun at everything. That was the spirit of the time. I don’t recall the Blockhead portion of it but that’s lame if Rocco went after Dave like that. Because I know my leaving the company did hurt Dave, and he’s such a sweet dude. If you’ve ever met Dave, you know. But I also think karma is real and Dave’s still doing his thing. Working on Blockhead and still having fun skating. He hit me up just recently. His heart’s in the right place. 

Was it difficult coming into Plan B as one of the only non-H-Street riders?

I don’t think anybody on the team was that tight back then… I guess Sal, Hensley and Sheffey were, but I didn’t trip on it because I wanted to be around that kind of energy. And I think that was another interesting part of it all, to get these guys together and see how they gel. 

Sheffey was the one who took me in and put me up, which was amazing. It’s funny because he was like a full-on adult back then, compared to the rest of us. He had his own apartment and a little scooter to get around town. He was responsible. I remember thinking to myself, “Man, this guy really has his shit together. I’d like to be like him one day.”

I stayed with Ternasky for a bit, too. That’s when I feel like we really got close. Mike was such a great mentor for all of us back then. Because we were just teenagers at the time, we didn’t know what was going on. Mike was always so supportive and encouraging. He just wanted everyone to be their best, you know? That’s really all it was. And he was really good at bringing that out of dudes. If you saw his relationship with Danny, it was incredible. To see how he nourished what Danny was doing and captured that? I wanted to be part of that, too. 

What about Rocco? 

Early days, he was fun. Like when Plan B was first starting out, we all had a good time. We’d all stay down at his house in Hermosa Beach. He had a boat and jet skis. And World had a little skatepark that everyone would fuck around in. It was all really fun and loose. There’s some great memories during that time, but then I feel like something changed. World moved to a different building and maybe the business side of things got more serious? Rocco and Mike T started having some issues behind the scenes. 

Oh yeah? 

Yeah, things were starting to bubble up between those guys around the time we started Girl. MT was always open about how things were operating and I don’t think that Plan B coming to World was very well received by some of those guys. A lot of the older riders were bummed. Maybe that was always a little something in the back of Steve’s mind? 

It could’ve been me just being that hyper kid again and oblivious to it all at first, but I definitely started to notice it more as time went on. 

How’d Steve react to you dating Megan? 

It was always a private thing between Megan and I back then. I don’t know how he felt, we never talked about it… That might be a good question for your Rocco interview. (laughs)

So how was filming for Questionable? How did you respond to all of Ternasky’s tactics, like the coaching and the bribes?

I mean, it’s kinda what we signed up for, you know? I was all-in on whatever was going to help us do what we needed to do. And Questionable was a little different because it was our first project. It wasn’t as stressful as it became later on. 

Honestly, I never got a lot of the tactics that others have spoken about. Like the bribes? I never got any of those. I wish I did! I was living out of a Thrasher duffel bag back then, for the most part. I could’ve used some bribes. That’s why Jason Lee is talking about Benihana? I never got a trip to Benihana. Maybe Danny got some of that bribery treatment but I never did. 

But the thing where if we didn’t want a certain person on the team, we had to film their tricks? That was interesting. Like, there was a scenario where Kanten Russell was doing all these tricks and MT wanted to put him on but the team wasn’t really into it. Okay, well, I guess Duffy’s gonna have to learn doubleflip noseslides or something. 

So that’s true?

Yeah, that really happened. There are a handful of tricks in Questionable for that reason. I remember Duffy having a few things that were probably a little outside of what he’d normally do but he did it for the team. 

But one thing about those Plan B videos, I was lucky to have such a great connection with Jake Rosenberg. Because he was equally as excited to make something with us. And those videos are amazing. I have to thank Jake for his patience, because that was us basically learning tricks on film. We didn’t know how to do hardly any of that stuff. We’d just come up with an idea and spend the next however many hours trying to do it. Trying to get it on camera. And then it was onto the next trick. That was a lot of those videos, actually. You can tell because some of it’s a little wobbly or bouncy. It wasn’t until later that things got more refined.

Speaking of Jake, I love when you push him out of the way to focus the rest of his board. Classic shit. 

Oh man, the focus days. It was the World dudes who really got that sparked. There was a lot of that during the Embarcadero era. We all got to be pretty good at it.

I’d never seen the nose and tail, though. Only Jeremy Klein-style in the middle.

Really? I used to do that one all the time. 

I’m pretty sure that was a first on video. 

Interesting… Should I claim it? I think I want to claim that one. (laughs)

photo: dawes

Claim that one, for sure. But speaking of Embarcadero, I always loved that last bit of your Questionable part at EMB without the music. Is there a story there? And why end it with a front shove slam over the Gonz Gap? 

I know, right? It’s a bail. (laughs)

That came from Jake and MT. They had a vision for that. Because it might’ve been a big deal if I actually made it, they wanted to put the idea out there. They did that a few times in there… even clipping a few bails to look like makes. 

Your noseblunt slide in the intro?

(laughs) See, everyone knew! It’s not like we were fooling anybody. I think it was just meant to stoke people out and maybe get them sparked to actually do it.

But that Embarcadero stuff at the end, I don’t know how that ended up that way. I thought it was cool, though. Maybe the song wasn’t long enough? And with it being Embarcadero, it was always cool to have that raw sound with the bricks. That’s one reason why Rubbish Heap was so rad, there were parts without any music. Just raw skate sounds. Maybe there was some subliminal inspiration from that?

I mostly just looked over their shoulders while they edited, but even then, I was stoked to be part of the process. To see how it all came together and learn a few things. But it was Jake and Mike who put it all together. They had a cool little room downstairs with all the equipment where we’d watch footage and try ideas… It could get tense in there. Jake and Carroll actually got in a fistfight one day. (laughs)

Gotta ask, what are you screaming at Colin on that ramp with the wrench?

“Little dude!” You didn’t know that one? 

I actually thought it was French when I was younger.

(laughs) I’m a pretty heavy mumbler, but yeah, “little dude”. That’s what I used to call Colin. 

And what about those plaid button-up “Rick Shirts”?

Oh, I loved those button-ups. I don’t know… People called those “Rick Shirts”? That’s funny. 

I don’t know where that came from. Was Matt Hensley possibly wearing those back then? I feel like I might’ve got sparked off of him. I started running those pretty hard during the Blockhead times. We were heavily thrifting back then and those were always pretty cheap. I remember finding a couple Ben Shermans in London that I was stoked on. I might even still have a few of those to this day. 

How did that all red Big Brother cover come together? Which I know you recreated later in yellow. 

That was Spike’s brain, of course. Jeff Tremaine had recently become editor of Big Brother and Spike came up with the concept. It was really fun because you could do anything to that park. One day, it’s spraypainted. The next day, it’s painted entirely red for a conceptual photo. Nobody cared. 

The gear was pretty crazy because we didn’t use fabric paint. Just straight-up house paint. So it wasn’t the easiest thing to skate in. It was fun, though. I’ve always tried to be a good guinea pig for Spike. Anything he comes up with, I’m down to try. I love doing stuff with him. 

So that really was paint?

Yeah, they just rolled it on me. It was makeup on my skin, but everything else was house paint. It was fun, but I almost wish that we didn’t try to recreate it. Some things you just kinda have to let be, right? 

red: spike, yellow: kosick

Good point. But did you have the same fatigue going into Virtual Reality that everyone else had? Because you’re on fire at this point.  

I was just more comfortable with everything by then. There are moments in Questionable that I’m proud of, for sure, but Virtual Reality felt really good. Lots of good ideas being thrown out and a nice connection where I’m physically able to do the things in my head. Being able to make them come to life. It feels good when all those things line up and someone’s there to film it. You’re stoked when that happens, and those are the moments you end up chasing forever. I’m still looking for that feeling to this day. 

I’m so lucky to have been in those Plan B videos, you know? Sometimes I wonder what I’d be doing right now if it wasn’t for those videos.  

Hard to believe it was only two years. Were you skating Beryl a lot back then? 

Yeah, that was one of our local spots near World. I was always hanging around that zone, which had Beryl and the Imperial ledges. Torrance High and the World Park. That’s a lot of my part, actually. Those were fun little spots to dick around on. 

That steep bank was definitely challenging. A lot of stuff was going down on that back then. 

Your switch tre and fakie inward heel remain two of the best… and of course, your rollaway celebration is incredible. 

(laughs) That’s so silly. I was just having fun.

Again, we were all just feeding off each other, like Henry’s noseblunt slide on the bank to curb. Daewon was doing all kinds of insane stuff on the bank, too. It became a game of whatever interesting trick you could do on flatground, you’d try to take it to the bank. That was the challenge. Switch 360 flips were pretty new at the time so I was happy to get that one. 

But were those battles? Hence the celebration?

I don’t think they took that long, no. It’s one of those things where the more you skated it, the less it felt like a wall. I ended up doing that switch 360 flip a few times. One for the video and then Bryce and I shot a Thrasher cover with it, too. I can’t remember if we always planned to go there for that or if it just happened naturally. Because stuff was still so spontaneous at the time. Like, “Hey, Bryce is coming down on Thursday. You’re shooting a cover. Pick out a spot.”

“Uh… okay.”

It’s pretty funny to think about how things went down back then.

How’d you come to duet with one Edgar Needham for that timeless rendition of “Here Comes The 

Sun”?

(laughs) Is that his name? The homeless guy? I’ve never heard that before! That’s insane. 

I remember Jonah Hill telling me how that was a big inspiration for him when he was working on Mid-90s. It’s interesting how things like that happen. Because we were just out skating and saw him hanging around with this guitar. You know how it is when you’re out in the streets, the homeless are a big part of the experience. You come across some interesting characters. But that guy had a good spirit. I honestly can’t remember how I got to sing a song with him but I’m stoked I did. 

I always encourage young filmers to keep the camera going, like how Jake and Meza used to. They were always so good at not only filming tricks but everything else… because you never know. Edit yourself later. 

It adds personality. But at the same time, it’s gotta be a little odd for you as these really are just random moments that have become immortalized. Like, you’re seriously just buying socks there. 

But it’s those little blurbs of Mark Gonzales or Matt Hensley skating in Doc Martens… that’s what makes it special. To this day, whenever we’re working on videos, that’s what we always reference. Like, old H-Street videos with the voiceovers? That’s what you connect with. It gives you a feeling, rather than simply showing the hardest trick. 

Ned’s Atomic Dustbin was a big hit at the time, but how’d you choose Rick James? 

Megan Baltimore has secretly been my music curator for a while now. I love Rick James but that was her idea. She’s responsible for a lot of good soundtracks, actually. 

Like what? 

She came up with a lot of songs in Mouse. And there’s a great John Cougar Mellencamp song that she picked out. “Jack and Diane”. She’s been a credit song staple for years. 

I think R.E.M. was also being considered for my Virtual Reality part. I can’t remember which song, but I’m glad we went with Rick James. It just the fit the mood… and captured what a dipshit I was back then. 

(laughs) So Carroll had that Princess Leia graphic, which he’s claimed was a hint at starting Girl, but how long was that plan going prior to everybody leaving? And did all this really stem from some mysterious wheel invoices?  

Carroll’s Princess Leia had nothing do with being in the know about starting Girl. And I’ve heard this wheel invoice thing a few times over the years, but I don’t really know about that. There was a lot more going on than just wheel invoices, you know? Like seeing Mark Gonzales peel out of the World parking lot at 60mph in a Volvo full of skateboards. 

“What happened?”

“Mark just quit Blind.”

That’s when I first started to notice things bubbling up. More and more talk about math not lining up. Maybe that’s what the wheel invoice thing is alluding to? Because people seemed to really start looking into board royalty stuff after Mark left. We all got a little spooked by that, which kinda marked the end of that early energy.

When did Girl transition to a real thing, versus simply talking in the van? 

Well, there was also talk about how guys were getting retired at a very young age. Like, I don’t know if Hensley was necessarily forced into retirement but it did get a little weird with Sal. That kinda stuff was happening. And I remember people being concerned about Jovontae, too. There was just a lot going on behind the scenes. Things were feeling different. 

I’m trying to think of the timeline. We did all go on a tour together for World and Plan B, that’s when it was decided that we were going to leave and start a new company. And the Back To The City contest is when we all came out in the shirts and let everybody know. I don’t know how long it was between that contest and the tour… maybe a few months? But that was the real bonding moment. The beginning. I feel like we even made shirts on that trip, that far ahead. 

After that tour is when we started putting things together. And we actually did talk to Ternasky about everything before the contest. We all went to a diner in Daly City and told him what was about to happen. I don’t think we could’ve had that same kind of conversation with Steve. 

photo: spike

Yeah, the only way Girl could’ve happened was Steve not knowing. 

Oh yeah, and he still tried several different things after it all went down, too. Threats. Legal letters. Making his own Girl product and trying to put it out before us. A lot of classic Steve tactics being used.

 

One thing that I would like to say about that tour, which is pretty lame, was the amount of product being stolen from World at that time. Our first stop of that tour, where we’re supposed to be doing a demo for the shop, we just sold everything in the parking lot. That was lame. Because we’re there to support the shop, you know? But here we are, selling all the shit we stole out of our van at half price. We were just kids at the time and I don’t think we fully realized what we were doing, but looking back, that was the wrong way to go about things.  

How’d that conversation with MT go? 

It was heartbreaking, because he was such a huge presence in all of our lives. It was just time for us to do something different. We were tired of stressing out over videos. And people might’ve been tripping on some of the board graphics, too. There were so many factors… we just needed to do something else. 

What were their concerns with Jovontae? 

I remember there being talk of people going up to SF and checking on Jovontae without him knowing, which was weird. Concerns over what dudes were up to. There was definitely some weirdness going on behind the scenes. 

That was always the thing with Jovontae. If a video was coming out, he could just spend the last week and film a video part. It was awesome, but you did wonder where he was for the rest of that time. 

How did the OG team come together? Was Henry the only “no”? 

The OG team just came from all of us skating together at the time. That’s really all it was.  We were friends, so it felt very organic. 

Henry was someone we definitely wanted on the team from the very beginning, like “Oh yeah, Henry has got to be part of this.” And I think he was the only person we asked that said no. He could tell you his reasons better than I could, but I believe they were mostly financial, which makes sense. 

I feel like Tim’s name didn’t come up until a little later on. And, of course, there’s the story of us leaving to go on our first tour and not everyone could fit in the van…

Chico’s not having a seat led to the birth of Chocolate? That’s true? 

Yeah, that’s really what sparked it, which is insane to think about. And Chocolate was originally going to be called “Sister”, but Steve trademarked it before we could. Because I don’t think we even knew what a trademark was back then. (laughs)

There were a few other people involved with Chocolate at the very beginning, too. Like Kareem and Shiloh were around and skating with Guy a bunch back then, it just didn’t work out. 

But yeah, it was just a project among friends. It sucked that only so many people could officially be on the team. We would’ve loved to brought everybody, but in the end, I think everybody ended up where they needed to be. 

Was the Blind “Friends” section doubling as a pre-Girl footage dump for those guys?

No, although Carroll was the one really pushing for that part. He’s just always been really big on trying to include his friends in things. But that part came out awesome, though.  

Were there any other names being considered for Girl? 

Mikey came up with a bunch. “Onyx” was a bad one. Horrible. I think he was just into the band at the time. And “Muni”, like public transportation. 

For some reason, Girl just stuck. We’ve made up a bunch of dumb reasons over the years as to why we went with it, but honestly, we just thought it would sound cool over the loudspeaker at contests, like, “Skating for Girl…” Probably not the most sophisticated reason but that’s how loose things were back then. Fuck it, call it “Girl”… And let’s just use the bathroom sign. (laughs)

I think that’s what made it so much fun.

Is Megan the “Girl” in Girl? 

No, she just happens to be a woman. If anything, we would’ve named it “Backbone” because she truly is the backbone of everything. We definitely wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Megan and all she does.

Why XLarge Distribution?

XLarge was a store on Vermont where we used to get all our Adidas and Ben Davis. They always had sick gear, so XLarge was always something we were stoked on. 

As Spike started getting more into making music videos, the Beastie Boys were also involved in the early days and XLarge became more of a thing. It was Eli Bonerz, his brother Eric, and this other guy named Adam. They were the guys behind the scenes, and Spike got to know them by running in the same circles and going to parties in LA. 

On a whim, Spike just hit up Eli one day, like, “Hey, we’re maybe going to start a company. Would you guys be down to help distribute it for us?”

“Yeah, sure. Let’s meet up.”

Part of the agreement was that Megan had to also work for XLarge for a year and help out there. But yeah, they gave us a corner of their warehouse until we got on our feet. We were only boards and t-shirts back then, nothing too elaborate, but we were also doing almost everything ourselves. We were psyched, though. It was all so interesting and new. 

Going through Fausto (Vitello) was also an idea, and we did meet up with him about it. We talked about everything we wanted to do and he was always super supportive. He gave us some great advice. Because Girl wasn’t always so well received by some of the other owners. There weren’t many companies at the time, so a couple of those bigger guys got together at one point, like, “We can’t let these knuckleheads do anymore of this. It’s affecting our business.”

Yeah, I’ve always been curious about the rest of the industry’s reaction to Girl, beyond Rocco.

It definitely became a thing when Chocolate was about to happen. Some of those company owners got in touch with Paul Schmitt and told him that they couldn’t support what this was doing to the industry. So yeah, that’s another reason why we had to go through XLarge. There weren’t too many other places that had the infrastructure we needed to really get our stuff out there. 

XLarge was great, but within a year or so, we just felt like we could probably do it all on our own. Megan and I were living in Echo Park at the time, which was kinda sketchy back then. Like, I would go on tour and dudes would come knocking on our door, fresh out of jail. Spray painting on stuff. It wasn’t a good spot for a young lady to be by herself while I’m gone for half a year. So we moved back to Torrance, where her family is. It has a nice warehouse district and everything. And we’ve been there ever since. 

What made you heed the call of becoming “President”? 

(laughs) I think we roshambo’d.

When you incorporate, you legally need those positions for the paperwork. So Mikey’s Vice President, Spike is Secretary and Megan’s Treasurer. But it’s all stupid. We’ve never lived by those titles. We’re all in this together… although, Mike does like to throw it out there all the time that I’m president. 

How would you describe the dynamic between you and Carroll? 

Mike gets to stress and be the doubter of everything, but we’re a good balance. We always try to find a place in the middle between my stoke and his negativity. (laughs)

For some reason, he’s just always been like a little brother to me. I love the way his brain works and how he thinks about things. Like, what he stresses about every day? His daily stresser? He blows our minds, man. It’s too funny. 

How was filming Goldfish compared to those previous Plan B pressure cookers? Some claim it to be not as progressive, as everyone was more about enjoying themselves again. 

I mean, that’s what it was. Being able to have some fun and enjoy ourselves a little. Dorking around. Not having to stress about making up a trick… It’s way more fun to grab a launch ramp and pay homage to Stacy Peralta. We just needed to take a break.

That actually lasted for a couple videos. There’s some great skating in there, too, but I don’t think we were really giving it our all. I feel like that pretty much went up to Mouse… Guy is the one who really sparked that video and set the tone for putting in some effort. Seeing what all he could do, which became contagious. Mouse was the beginning of us trying to find a better balance in videos. I mean, we would film each other for Goldfish. We had a janky Hi-8 camera that we’d all pass around. We weren’t too worried about production value back then. 

photo: mountain

What about “The Parallel” with Lance? 

Oh, Lance is the best. We talked about doing The Firm through Girl at one point but it didn’t work out. That would’ve been interesting. 

We were just hanging out a lot back then. Lance was like our big brother, keeping an eye on us and making sure that we weren’t messing things up too bad. He gave us a lot of great advice. We’d go over to his house a lot, too. Skating a bunch. Shooting photos. He got really into photography and started shooting some of our ads. It was fun to work with him on different stuff. 

The Parallel was just an idea he had. Something he wanted to say. He sparked that and we were all into it. I actually hit him up recently, wondering what the new Parallel would be for today. That would be fun to remake. 

Rocco trademarks “Sister”, starts “Bitch”, and even throws some digs at Girl in Trilogy, like Daewon taking the goldfish. How much trouble was Steve making behind the scenes and how come Girl never fired back? 

Wasn’t there something about “filming westerns”, too? I mean, I understand those who weren’t a part of what we were doing had some feelings, but it’s all love. I love Daewon. And honestly, I don’t even remember that. It wasn’t really a thing. 

I feel like everyone knew that stuff was mostly coming from Rocco. Like I said, he was doing all kinds of things back then. We just a found a letter the other day where he threatened Megan with legal action. We’re thinking about maybe blowing it up really big for our 30^th anniversary show. A “corporate espionage” legal threat… as well as a few darkmen lurking around. Rocco had certain individuals call Megan to say that it wasn’t in her best interest to pursue this endeavor. It was pretty foul. 

I’m happy that we knew enough not to fire back, because that’s never been what Girl is about. That’s another reason why we left. We just want to put out stoke, you know? It’s never been about burning people or tearing people down. We wanted to get away from all that stuff, and in firing back, it would’ve brought us down. We didn’t want to play into that. 

While I’ve always heard that the Goldfish represented skateboarding, what’s the mouse? 

Really? The goldfish represented skateboarding? That’s interesting.

(laughs) I knew as soon as I said that, it was probably bullshit. 

(laughs) That’s amazing… but I like that! So Sheffey is trying to save skateboarding? I think that’s great! 

I’ve seriously thought that since I was 16. This is why I’m glad we’re doing this interview. 

Amazing. Maybe Spike had that idea on some subliminal level, but I never thought there was any deeper meaning behind either of them, really. The mouse just came from that skit we filmed with Keenan. That actually came first, so we just went with it. It felt like a good follow-up to the goldfish. But no, there wasn’t any crazy symbolism there. 

Who is Cory Weincheque?

I know of him. We mainly get together for video projects but we haven’t talked in a while… I need to reconnect with that guy. 

Oh yeah?

Do people think that’s a fictitious name? No, he’s kinda like a second-cousin from Brastislava. He’s a good guy. 

Gotcha. Do you feel you’ve possibly sacrificed some of your career due to your role at Girl? That maybe some of those shared parts would’ve been full parts if it weren’t for all this other stuff?

It’s rad you asked that. As we get into all this “30 Years of Girl” stuff and I look back over everything, I definitely could’ve done more on my skateboard. I’m at ease with that because it’s the role I signed up for, but there have been times in the past where it hurt me. There were a lot of situations, behind the scenes, where it would’ve been nice to just turn off my brain in that regard. To just go out and skate instead… More so in the later years. Because when we first started, nobody really knew how long you could be pro for, but these guys are seriously showing how long we can do this. I mean, McCrank blows my mind. I’m trying to copy his recipe. If I could cut out sugar and skate like him, sign me up! 

I knew when we started Girl that the other guys would be able to skate more. That they wouldn’t have to worry about the things I’d have to. But I’m so grateful for everything, and it stokes me out even more whenever I am able to hop in the van. Hopefully I’m not taking up a space. But yeah, I’ve definitely left some tricks out there that I would’ve either thought of or dreamt of. A few things have been left unfinished, but I’m okay with that.  

photo: Colen

Who are some “almost” Chocolate or Girl riders from over the years? 

Mark Gonzales, that one almost happened. It’s a trippy one for me that he didn’t get on. The fact that he even wanted to ride for us was insane. 

Gilbert Crockett, right after that thing happened with Alien but before he started Mother. We hit him up to skate for Chocolate, which would’ve been rad. I think we talked to Danny Garcia about skating for us, too, but he just wanted to do music stuff. 

Let me think… there have been some good ones.

PJ? 

PJ, for sure. Eric and Crank were tight with him during the eS days. Then we all went on a Fourstar trip to Japan and when we got home, Mike left a note on his windshield at LAX, like, “If you ever need a home, hit us up.” 

One thing I’ve been wondering about lately is how Jimmy Wilkins never ended up on Girl? I’m stoked he’s on Real, but I’m a fan. 

What was the story behind that fake “Louie Lopez on Chocolate” Instagram post?

That’s a Carroll “April Fools” joke for you. Classic Mikey wanting to freak people out. I think that’s why he doesn’t do social media anymore. People are too sensitive. But that was a fun one. That’s what social media is there for, right? 

For the record: What is the process of getting on Girl?

It’s really up to the crew. There isn’t a set process or anything, just whoever we’re stoked on. But it also has to make sense. Because you can’t just throw a bunch of random people together because they all rip at skating. Everyone’s gonna be working on this project together, so we should all want to be around each other.

It’s usually just the people we like rolling with. Of course, being a great human helps. Like Breana and Rowan, for instance. We can’t get enough of them. But yeah, it’s basically whoever we’re stoked on that we want to roll with and can hang in the van. 

Does everyone on the team have to approve? 

For sure… well, there have been times when maybe one person wasn’t totally on-board with a new rider and it worked out. I feel like McCrank was the first person to get on Girl after the original team and that ruffled some feathers. And we talked about everything, for sure. But with a situation like that, someone might have to set aside their personal opinion for the overall benefit of the project. And to this day, I’m so happy we made that decision. Crank is the best. 

Everyone does have to approve, for the most part. But because we’re so close, if someone isn’t feeling something, it’s usually a shared sentiment. It’s rare to have one exception to what everyone else is feeling. And I don’t think anyone has gotten on recently that everyone wasn’t down for. That’s just creates a weird energy. 

photo: burnett

You mentioned The Firm earlier, but why hasn’t there been a third board brand over the years?

It’s come up but we’ve always had plenty to do with what we’re already doing. We tried being a distributor at one point, but it never seemed to work out. We only have so much bandwidth and focus, it’s unfair for that other brand to not get the attention it deserves. 

Any truth to an Alex Olson/Dylan Rieder brand through Cralitap? 

Yeah, Alex did want to do that at one point. There was talk, for sure, but then 3D started up not too long afterwards. And I’m happy that Alex was able to eventually create his own brand. It’s a lot of work to get that out there. 

Again, you guys just didn’t have the bandwidth? 

I don’t know if that was the case. I’d have to ask Mike, but I’m wondering why we didn’t do it. Maybe there was some political reason? People who’d been part of Girl and Chocolate longer that were wanting to do their thing? I don’t know. That’s a good question… But that would’ve been sick, though! Jeez! 

How did the Fully Flared pressure compare to the Plan B days? 

Yeah, we did end up recreating the exact situation we were trying to get away from. But it was a little different this time in that it was more about people putting pressure on themselves. It’s not like we were gonna retire anybody, you know? 

It’s just the tone of some of those trips became less fun. People were exhausted. So yeah, it got stressful, but Ty knew what all that video could be and I’m glad he pushed us the way he did. I miss having Ty on these projects. He’s a very talented, driven person and we made some great videos together. Sure, it got hectic towards the end, but I’m glad the dudes got to experience that. 

Was it stressful for you with that being your first part in a while? And were you happy with the results? 

I didn’t feel as much pressure, but being older, I did use it as a reason to change my lifestyle. I switched up my diet and stopped drinking for a bit. I started taking my health more seriously for that project, which definitely wasn’t the case during my earlier parts. And I was able to see a direct translation from all that and how I felt on my skateboard, which was cool. 

It’s kind of a cruise-y part for me. Maybe not entirely enough to warrant a whole video part, I think Ty worked some extra whatevers in there… Dork-around tricks to make it a full part. But for me, it was fun to make. I can’t speak for everybody but I loved being able to travel around and film. We went to Spain a bunch. There were a few small trips where Guy and I would go to Barcelona with Federico for a month. Like I was saying earlier, I was able to go on longer trips and not be so tied to work stuff. I got to be a skater again for a while, which felt good. 

But filming a part had changed so much since the 90s. Not only with Ty and his toys, but now there’s stuff like “enders” and “ABDs”, too.

I don’t know what determines a last trick but learning from those Plan B videos, if you have something you can pull off before deadline, that always eases the stress of things. I was lucky in that I already had a few things that could’ve been my last trick, which definitely made the project more enjoyable for me. 

My ender was actually Ty’s idea. It’s funny because I did one before that which I honestly thought was better, but a fly flew into the lens. I had to redo it, which I was tripping on. I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to pull it again, but luckily, I got it pretty quickly. That trick is interesting because it just popped into my head spontaneously. One of those instances where you’re in the right place at the right time. Right crew. When all those things come together, it really feels good. 

But yeah, Ty was the one who put all that together. I just had to trust him, but I was happy with how it worked out.

You once asked Julien if Fully Flared was “too jocked out”, was that a concern of yours?

(laughs) That’s funny. It’s true, though. We were doing that kind of video again. What did he say?

He said no. 

That’s good. I’m glad he said no. Julien loves to see hard skating. I’ve seen him so stoked at events, just watching people go off. I love that. 

Who came up with the idea for Beauty and the Beast? 

I can’t remember if it was Mikey or Sam but one of them had the conversation with Julien one night. It was obvious that this would be our Goldfish moment where we could blow off some steam. I think Julien could even tell that we needed a trip like that. Just perfect timing. And those were some of the best trips. 

photo: colen

I feel like that tour really changed things, because any previous “Fresh vs Hesh” way of thinking was totally irrelevant afterwards. 

Right? But that’s kinda how we’ve always looked at it. Just ride everything. And what a great crew to do that with. Being on the road with Cardiel? I never got the chance to do that before. So much fun. We need to do another one of those.

Has it been difficult with Girl and Chocolate always being seen as “the best” for so long? With expectations always being so high? 

Well, you always want to do your best. For yourself, you know? Your personal best. And I feel like that’s what keeps us motivated. That’s what we’re attracted to: The challenge of it all but also having fun while we’re trying to do it. 

Did you film at all for Pretty Sweet? 

There may have been a few junky clips because I was on some sessions, but not really. I wish I would’ve filmed a couple things. I should’ve. I think people were disappointed that I didn’t have a little something in there. I just didn’t want to get in the way by putting myself in there… but now I regret it because that’s such a great project. 

photo: colen

But was it possibly too much to try squeezing both Girl and Chocolate into that video? 

It did start out as just a Chocolate video, but I don’t think so. It just became another version of Yeah Right, where we were all gonna work on this project for this amount of time and whoever has parts gets in the video. Does it feel long to you? 

I don’t think so. I’m just saying with two teams and only so much space, I know that led to some difficult situations. 

Oh, for sure. Especially when you have montage sections and people have more footage that doesn’t make the final edit. 

I know Eldridge had that amazing part, which came out later. 

Right? And that could’ve easily been in the video. 

That’s been something we’ve had to deal with for a while now, since Yeah Right. I feel like that video was the beginning of people having footage that could’ve been included, we were just super critical. We always try to let the guys curate their own stuff but it can be really difficult at times. 

So much has been made of Ty’s involvement with Girl Films, how much power did he have as director versus you as company owner?

Well, we were all big fans of Ty’s work from the Transworld videos, so we gave him a lot of creative control. And at the end of each project, Spike would come in and film some bits, then we’d all weigh in on the edit. We had some disagreements about certain clips, which is bound to happen. Certain moments or feelings in the video. But for the most part, we let Ty do his thing. Because that’s why we brought him in, you know? To bring his energy to the table. That’s why he was there. And I think we made some great videos together. 

Could you foresee people leaving after Pretty Sweet? How do you react as family to projects like 3D and Numbers? 

No, we didn’t see that coming at all. And there were a lot of different factors and reasons involved. Hearing why Alex left, coming off two big videos like Fully Flared and Pretty Sweet, I don’t know how much fun that could’ve been for him. I mean, it was fun but I understand. He also wanted to explore some things for himself, which I’m happy he did. 

It’s always heartbreaking when friends leave but you only want the best for everyone. I totally understand that people have to explore different paths in this journey we’re all on. I’ve come to understand that more, later in life. Obviously, it’s confusing and heartbreaking whenever you’re in the moment, because we’re all making this thing together and then, we aren’t anymore. It’s complicated and there are a lot of layers, but I’m happy that everyone is doing great. 

Did you know MC was about to dismiss MJ in that Jenkem interview? Looking back, would you have handled that differently?  

I honestly can’t remember the timeline, but there were a lot of emotions flying around. It was so in the moment. You can ask Mike that question but I think he would’ve handled that differently now, for sure. That interview prompted some things for us to really think about. A lot of things went down back then that could’ve been handled differently, but I only wish the best for Marc and hope he’s doing well. It’s too bad that some things had to be aired out that way. The communication just wasn’t there, across the board. We’re not the best communicators. I think that's something we’ve all had to learn in life. It was definitely a learning experience for everyone. 

Well said. I love that Girl kept Mike Mo and Cory Kennedy on the team through all that’s happened, but there has been considerable social pressure regarding other riders. I know Kenny had some things that he’s apologized for and you’ve stood by him, which couldn’t have been easy. Care to discuss? 

No, it wasn’t easy. I mean, all of the circumstances around each of these situations is vastly different, but I know Kenny is a great human and growing from past experiences. He’s a work in progress, trying to be better. And I love that about him. We’re all a work in progress. 

I have to ask about Yonnie Cruz.

Oh, that was horrible. Devastating for everyone involved. We love Yonnie but he fucked up. He will tell you that he fucked up, but this is Yonnie’s story to tell. 

photo: colen

I realize this is still fresh but many are hoping to see a Robbie McKinley pro board from Girl. Is that something you would entertain? 

It’s interesting you say that, because if this were today, with all the stuff Robbie was putting out, he definitely would’ve had his name on a board. Without a doubt. It was just such a different time back then. And it’s too bad that Robbie’s not here for us to share that with. Because even before the horrible news, we were talking about making an honorary board for him. It would be nice to still do that for his mom and sister. I don’t know what it would mean to them but I think it would be cool to show what an impact he had on our lives and skateboarding, in general. Without a doubt, he should’ve had his name on a board. 

As “Bunny Hop” will attest, the memory of Keenan Milton still looms large over Crailtap to this day. What’s your favorite memory of him? 

His laugh. He was always stoked, man. Always making the best of any situation. Anytime you were with him, you knew it was gonna be fun. He knew how to live, which was contagious. You always wanted to be around that. 

I always loved his DJ sets, too. Whenever he would DJ on the road, you would always get this super eclectic mix. Stuff you wouldn’t think of. So good. 

With such history, how does Girl and Chocolate stay relevant? 

I don’t know even know what “relevance” means, but if that’s having fun and putting stoke out into the world, then that’s what we’ve always tried to do. I think it just comes from this new energy on the team and rolling around with everyone.

I’m a huge Simon fan. 

Yeah, I’ve never seen anyone skate like Simon. People who’ve traveled with him know, but he embodies everything that Girl was started on. You have to witness it live. It’s like nothing you’ve ever seen before. 

I’m really stoked on where Girl is right now. Just the crew and the energy… How stoked everyone is on one another. It feels like it did in the early days.  

photo: colen

Glad to hear it. And I can’t thank you enough for doing this, Rick. As we close this out, what would you say has been the proudest accomplishment of your career? And your biggest regret? 

Oh, wow…

Honestly, I don’t know what my proudest accomplishment would be just yet. I guess I’m still working on it. And that’s probably what keeps me going… But no regrets, man. You can’t do that. A real accomplishment is learning how to let go of things and not regret shit. And like you said, we just lost Robbie. Life is unpredictable and it can be short. Let’s all enjoy it while we’re here. 

big thanks to rickk, bri-bri, jaime and closer mag. 

still can't believe this actually happened.