Originally published in Closer Skateboarding #3
Introduction by Jamie Thomas
Josh Kalis is widely considered one of the ‘realest’ skateboarders of his generation. He says what’s on his mind and wears his heart on his sleeve, for better or worse.
I first met Josh in 1993 and his talent was obvious. I then had the pleasure of having a front row seat in the early years of his career when he broke onto the scene with the skill, drive, style and swagger of a veteran; I had never seen anything like it.
From his fresh, yet timeless, gear and style to his impeccable trick selection, Josh’s career, in my opinion, has been close to flawless. He made his own lane and has done things unapologetically his way for over 25 years. Josh Kalis will always be one of my favorite skateboarders.
This is actually my third one. Not all at once, but yeah, this is my third Lamborghini.
Not bad, especially when considering how most pros from your era ended up with a Honda Civic.
(laughs) Yeah, I just put some money together, man. Being smart with my money. The first one, I put down $25,000 or so. My payments were, like, $1,200 a month. Something like that. I sold that one.
The second one, I acquired in a business deal. I started a company and brought someone in that ended up being a bad business arrangement, so I had to get out of there. I basically had to leave my own company, but getting a car was one of the stipulations to give up my shares.
And the third one, I just saved up and cashed one out. The one I have right now, it’s basically my dream car.
Lamborghini was always the dream car?
Always, ever since I was a little kid.
Congrats, man. I feel like every kid wants a Lamborghini growing up, but it rarely comes to fruition. You’ve had three of the damn things now.
I mean, anyone can get a Lamborghini. Some people might say that it’s a bad investment or whatever, but fuck those guys. Live your dream, man! There are credit companies that’ll hook it up. You can get a 15-year loan on these cars, if you want. You just gotta have the money to put down and a decent cash flow. Anyone can get a Lamborghini, if you really want one.
I think you just talked me into it!
Yeah, dude! Get yourself a Lambo! 15-year loan. (laughs)
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| photo: blabac |
I’ve actually been thinking about this a lot lately, now that I’m older. And I think that it just made me want to start living my life how I wanted to live it. To stop worrying about doing things “the right way” or how you’re “supposed” to live and just go for it. Like, if shit was popping with my friends in Dallas, I was on a bus to Dallas. If it was popping in Philly, I was on a bus to Philly. I didn’t necessarily want to be tied down to anything. I just wanted have fun and figure things out when I got there.
I always had mad roommates, too, which is basically how I could afford to live in a lot of these places. Five dudes living in a one-bedroom apartment, but we’d be out all day anyway. We’d only use the apartment to sleep in. But living that way also taught me the value of friendship. That friends are like family and the more, the merrier.
There was never any agenda where I was going to turn pro one day. It was just… life, dude. Skateboarding and moving around was part of the deal. The only time that I ever tried to “make it” was after Jamie Thomas came down to skate with me in Dallas. He was already pro back then, and I remember him saying, “If you can get yourself to California, I think we got something here.”
That’s when I got serious and moved out to San Diego. But that was the only time, and even that just kinda fell in my lap. The rest was just fun.
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| photos: blabac |
Didn’t you used to skate around Dallas with a gun?
I never skated with a gun, no. I basically had two different lifestyles back then: my skate lifestyle and then some extracurriculars. But we did play around with guns at the time. It wasn’t cool and luckily, nothing ever came from it. We just thought we were on some gangster shit. Gold teeth and Tek-9 earrings. We always had something on us, just to be sure. Because we’d be riding around in lowriders, going to parties. We started getting into squabbles and people would pull out their little jammies.
“Oh shit! Maybe we should get some jammies, too.”
It was definitely the wrong way to think about it. And because of that, I wouldn’t even touch a gun for the longest time afterwards. Not that I was anti-gun, I just didn’t fuck with them anymore. Because I felt like if I had a gun, it meant that I was expecting a certain type of trouble, like I was looking to swell up on somebody. It took me a long time to realize that I needed to be more mature about it. That I had to educate myself in the proper way. I love shooting guns now, but it took me a while to start going about them the right way.
From jammies to Lambos, you’ve come a long way, man.
(laughs) I know, dude. I can’t even call them “jammies” anymore. We used to have all these different names for guns… “gats”, “jammies”, “biscuits”. I can’t use any of that anymore because it’s such the wrong mentality to have toward firearms.
But even with all that, I feel like you were still filming constantly. Were you making sponsor-me tapes back then?
We were mostly just filming, but I did send a sponsor-me tape to a company called “Renegade” back in the day. I think it was Kevin Staab’s company. They sent me a couple boxes and the boards were huge, man. I had to cut them all down. I remember putting a World Industries board on top of a Renegade board and jigsawing around it. It was wild but I didn’t care. I was 14 years old and getting free boards. I was hyped as shit.
Renegade turned into Shine Skateboards and they sent me some boards, too. I ended up going to Woodward that year and that’s when I started talking to H-Street. They were filming for the Lick video and I got some tricks in there. I’m actually riding a Shine board in all that.
Did you know that you were filming a part at the time?
No, I was just at skate camp and they hit me up. They were doing a nighttime thing with no other campers around and asked me if I wanted to film some tricks. “Fuck yeah!”
I filmed all those Woodward clips that night and when I got back to Dallas, they hit me up again to see if I could send in some more clips for this video they were doing… which is funny because the only thing we had was this old, bullshit-ass camera. You can tell by the footage. The two street clips I have in there look so homemade.
I love the tracking bar on the 360 flip noseslide.
(laughs) Yeah, that part is pretty wild but I love it. I think it’s awesome.
I know Jamie Thomas coming to meet you in Dallas was a turning point, but how did you know him prior to that?
I met him in Philly while I was up there visiting my mom. Jamie was riding for Invisible at the time and he’d come through. I think we skated together a few times. Fast forward to me living in Dallas, he got my number through some mutual friends and called me up one day, completely out of the blue. He said that he was about to come down and wanted to link up.
He gets into town and comes over to where I’m staying. And I’ll be honest, we all thought he was crazy. He was skating big-ass wheels and dressing kinda wild. We were over him, man. It’s funny to think about, because there was one point where we’d called up some homegirls to come over and hangout… me and my homie were gonna ditch him. We were actually walking away in the parking lot when Jamie opened the door and popped his head out, like, “Where y’all going?”
I swear that might be the defining moment of my entire career. Because I ended up turning around and going back. And the next day is when we went out and filmed a ton of stuff, going from spot to spot. I had a hot day, too. Two days. I hadn’t even been skating that much, but it all worked out. That’s when he threw out the proposition. That if I could get to California, we were gonna make things happen.
“Alright, I’m gonna try.”
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| photo: blabac |
Yeah, I was staying in Philly and Ricky’s girl tried to get with me. It was the night before one of those Love contests. There was, like, ten of us staying in this one room. I was on the floor and this girl started trying to move in on me.
I even said something, like, “Yo, your Ricky’s girl.”
“Nah, I’m not Ricky’s girl.”
Even then, I’m telling you, nothing went down. Nothing. And the next day, shit got real confusing. Because there was the contest and everything, which was insane. People pouring piss on people for wearing certain pants. It was crazy. But I also saw that girl walking around with Rick, which I definitely took a mental note of. Like, “Oh, that’s weird.”
That night, shit went down. I got up on the roof of Ricky’s apartment, because that’s where everybody used to hang out. The entire Philly skate scene was there, and I swear the whole party stopped the second I showed up. I remember because, at the time, I was still smoking weed and I was high as shit. Everybody was staring at me. It was like the whole world just stopped. Ricky starts yelling at me, “What the fuck are you doing here!?! Nobody wants you here!”
I didn’t know what was going on. I look around and see the DGK kids standing there, but nobody said anything. I was like, “What the fuck?”
Ricky’s still screaming at me. “Fucking beat it, dude! Get the fuck outta here!”
It was surreal, man. I didn’t even say shit. I just turned around and went downstairs, because I had my garbage bag full of clothes down there. I was just grabbing my shit, but Ricky followed me down.
“If my ankle wasn’t fucked up, I’d fuck you up right now! If I ever see you at Love Park again, I’m gonna fucking kill you!”
I don’t even know what I said back to him because the whole thing was just so weird, man. I really didn’t know what was going on. People had to fill me in later. And I ended up dipping out to Michigan… not because of the beef, just coincidental at the time.
Didn’t that carry all the way out to Cali?
Yeah, I don’t think Rick realized that it was such a big thing back then. We never really talked about it, we just kinda squashed it one day. This was years later, he told me that he was over it and wasn’t gonna pursue it anymore.
But when I was in San Francisco, people knew. Matt Reason, rest his soul, and Sergei Trudnowski ended up coming out to Frisco one time. They were obviously on Ricky’s side. And I actually saw those guys at Union Square one day. They were sitting on a bench that we wanted to skate. I remember being like, “What’s up? This ain’t my turf or your turf, but we can settle this right now.”
“Nah, we don’t have any beef.”
Turns out, everything I’d been hearing that was supposedly coming out of Ricky’s mouth was either bullshit or super exaggerated. Because Matt and Sergei didn’t want any static.
“Alright then, get off this bench because we’re gonna skate it.” And that’s when I got the backlip in the starter jacket for that FTC ad.
San Francisco was everything I dreamed it would be, even down to the locals. This was the latter days of Embarcadero, which is probably the only thing that I wish I could’ve been a part of. Those classic EMB days with Carroll, Henry and Jovontae. That footage probably had a bigger influence on me than anything else in my entire career.
Carroll’s Questionable part feels like the blueprint for a lot of things you’ve done over the years.
Yeah, but even before that, the Quiet Storm video. It had that little EMB section in there. For me, that was the blueprint. And it wasn’t even the skate clips, like Carroll tre flipping the seven. It was the non-skate parts with people just skating flatground. All the shit going on in the background. I wanted to be part of something like that. Maybe it came from being grounded in my room for weeks at a time, but I thought that was the fucking life right there.
So, when I was finally able to go out there for the first time, filming with Jamie for what was basically my first real video part, it was incredible.
Was Marvin Gaye your choice?
Marvin Gaye was 100% my choice. Because there’s a whole other side to this with my girlfriend at the time, whose now my wife. We went through some shit down in San Diego. Because when we flew out to California together, I think she had a different idea of what was actually going on. I saw this as my opportunity to break into the skate world, but for her, she’d just gone out there to be with me and hang out in California, I guess.
The problem was that I was off anything extracurricular outside of skateboarding. I’m only skating and doing things related to skating. Even if I’m going across the street to hang out at the Alien House, it’s because I want to get involved with these people. I’m not there to gawk. I’m going in, drinking 40s and shooting dice. Beating Clyde Singleton at dominos. I’m trying to earn my respect with these dudes. Because this is my big break, I gotta make the most of it… even if they are making fun of the way I talk.
So, for whatever reason, Olivia and I ended up breaking up and she went back to Michigan. I was pretty heartbroken about it. Thankfully, we got back together, years later, and we’re actually married now. But that was a gnarly time, man. I remember listening to all kinds of soul music and blues rock. It all had to do with relationship shit. Feeling down and out. But the thing is, I can’t be depressed. It just doesn’t work for me. If I’m sad, it always ends up motivating me to make something out of it. So if I’m listening to Al Green or Isaac Hayes, I’m nodding my head like it’s some boom bap hip-hop, because I catch so much motivation. And Marvin Gaye, I was just so motivated by that song that I had to use it.
It was going to be either “Let’s Get It On” or the middle section of “How Many More Times?” by Led Zeppelin. Where he’s like, “Squeeze my lemon!” That was my favorite shit. Unfortunately, they’d already used that for the intro in an H-Street video, so I went with Marvin instead.
Legend has it that Drake Jones was putting you on Real until a chance meeting with Dyrdek on your way over at a tradeshow. Why choose Alien over Real? And were there any repercussions from Deluxe or Jamie Thomas? That must’ve been a turbulent time for you, right?
That shit wasn’t turbulent for me, man.
(laughs)
I didn’t even think about repercussions or anything like that. Because with Real, it wasn’t like I was at Deluxe, taking meetings. I hadn’t even skated a Real board yet. It was literally just Drake saying that he could get me on the team.
The thing is, Toy Machine was really good for me. I didn’t see it as a stepping stone at the time, but looking back at it, Toy Machine was a great stepping stone for me. It really allowed me to breakthrough, man. My Heavy Metal part did what it needed to do… I don’t know if I necessarily quit the right way. Because there was some shit that happened that I wasn’t into at all, which kinda led me to just up and leave.
Like what?
Practical jokes and shit. Just some shit I don’t like. That and the fit just wasn’t there, man. The fit for me was Alien. Because here I am, living in San Diego at Jamie Thomas’ house, but the Alien House is right across the street and I’m always over there. It just felt like my tribe.
So, when I saw Dyrdek at the tradeshow and told him that I was about to go talk to Jim about getting on Real, he goes, “Why don’t you just ride for Alien?” And it wasn’t just another snarky comment. He seemed like he was actually being sincere.
I go, “For real?”
“Yeah, dude.”
That was it for me. None of that other shit even mattered. Not that there were any repercussions from Real. I don’t know if those guys even knew Drake was talking to me about all that. But I honestly didn’t expect Jamie to get so upset the way he did. I was really surprised by that. Because, shit, I’d watched him quit companies without looking back at all. I even went on an Invisible tour because I thought he was gonna be on there, too, but he’d already left for Toy Machine. I was just out there with these guys I barely knew.
But yeah, he was pissed, man. Because I was just gone. Alien Workshop? I’m out.
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| photo: blabac |
Rob said your wardrobe got pretty g’d out after initially getting on Alien. And there is a pretty big switch-up from Heavy Metal to Timecode.
Nah, I got back to being me. Straight up, that was more of a genuine reflection of my personality. Because when I was on Toy Machine, I got Sophisto clothes and Toy Machine gear. Don’t get me wrong, I love khakis and white t-shirts, but I was basically taking whatever I could get. When I got on Alien, I felt more comfortable running shit that I really liked. Sweatpants and running pants, cocking my hat to side… shit like that.
Do you still have that Tek-9 earring?
No, I don’t.
The other part of this is when I lived in Dallas, you had to present yourself in a certain way because of the crew you hung out with. But when I got to San Diego, all that shit vanished. There was no gangsterism, so I could focus more on the skateboarding side of things. But then, moving up to Frisco, it goes back to that gangster style again. I’m presenting myself this way because there’s more of a street mentality there. In San Diego, you can walk around in a robe and flip-flops at the mall and people won’t even trip. They’ll just think you went surfing. But if you go up to SF and present yourself in that SoCal/Pacific Beach type of look, they’re gonna think they can run up on you and take advantage.
Did you actually “film” for Timecode or were you “just filming”?
I was just filming, for the most part. There was a point where we were all told Alien was putting out another video and that we should start thinking about our parts. To film whatever we needed real fast, but I don’t think it was a full-on project, really.
So how’d that part come together? Did you choose that KMD remix?
Nah, KMD was not my choice. I liked it, but I’m not sure where that came from.
We just sent in whatever footage we had. Tracking shit down, in addition to whatever we filmed during that last little bit. I actually had a bunch of footage end up in a 411 that I was planning to use in Timecode, which I was super pissed about. I had that 360 kickflip over the Liversedge street gap and I also had a Pier 7 line I really liked.
Frontside kickflip nosegrind and a half-cab frontside nosegrind.
That’s the one. I actually flexed on Ty Evans about all that back then. Because we were at a tradeshow and I heard that he was the one who did the 411 stuff. I had to let him know, man. “Why the fuck did you put my footage in there!?!”
I got all mad and shit… which, I kinda wish I hadn’t done now. Ty’s one of the nicest dudes in the world. But at the same time, I knew who filmed that stuff for me. It was John Trippe. And the rumor was that John sent those tapes to 411 because there was some other shit on there they needed. They just helped themselves to my clips, too. I don’t know if John sold them the clips or what, but I was pissed. Because I feel like if I would’ve had those two clips in Timecode, my part would’ve been so much better. The way it came out, I always felt like it was missing those clips. It should’ve been better.
Still, that switch back tail down Hubba is legendary.
I actually had to do that twice. There are two photos of it, but the first one, I didn’t make. It was me and RB Umali… I can’t remember who took the photo. I don’t even know why I started trying that. Maybe Lennie had already switch backside 5-0’d it and that’s what got me thinking about it? I don’t know. But next thing I know, I’m throwing it out there. Switch ollieing up next to it, just to get a feel for it.
“Damn, this kinda works!”
I ended up sliding a couple and somebody clicked the photo, that real grainy one where I’m wearing the Rudy Johnsons. I was getting pretty hyped, because I’m thinking it’s about to go down. Then I caught the fucking worst heel bruise, dude. That took me out for a minute.
After my foot finally healed, we were back at Hubba, because I’d had this trick on my mind the entire time. I knew it was possible. And there just happened to be a sick ass session going on with all the homies, which made me want to get it even more. I remember thinking to myself, “I’m on this.”
I ended up getting it that day with no photographer, just a filmer. But once word got back to DC, they flew Ballard up to shoot the sequence. It was definitely easier the first time I did it. The second time is always harder because you’re not as hyped. You’ve already done it, so it feels more like a job.
The kickflip backnose at Serra was also way ahead of the curve.
That one took hours, dude. Hours. But I was hyped on how it came out.
Was there ever footage of your TWS cover with the Golden Gate Bridge?
Nah, there wasn’t a filmer that day. Somebody had told Skin and I about this old Fort Miley type spot on the other side of the bridge, so we went to check it out. And with the bridge in the background like that, I knew I had to get something.
Yeah, the photo came out dope but that thing was fucking terrible to skate. There was hardly any run-up. You could only push a little and then you had to make a 90-degree turn, grabbing onto this rail and yanking yourself around for more speed. And then, it’s a downhill landing that immediately turns into gravel. I don’t think it would’ve looked as good on video. It was just for the photo.
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| photo: skin |
What’s your process with filming parts? Are you going on missions or is it more spontaneous?
I prefer to be spontaneous, but there are times when I’ll learn something and want to take it to a certain spot. Like when I learned bigspin backtails, I knew right away that I wanted to take it to Pyramid Ledges. I didn’t even give a shit about anywhere else. I only wanted to see it there.
Those are the things I’ll think about, where I want to see certain tricks. But other than that, I try to film things a little more random. Most of my old parts, like Sixth Sense or Peep This, all that came from going to the spot and skating. Having ideas pop in my head and making it work.
What about “enders”?
I’ve never done that, dude. As a matter of fact, I was oblivious to all that “last part” and “enders” shit for the longest time. Because the parts I liked back in the day, they didn’t even have enders. Like, one of my all-time favorite parts is Gino’s Snuff part, his ender is a fakie flip off a curb. It just wasn’t a thing back then.
I remember it was during The DC Video. I’d already filmed a ton and honestly thought my part was pretty much done. And this was way before everybody else. I was talking to Dyrdek about it and he goes, “Dude, you’re not done! What’s your ender? A fucking bump over a can?”
“What do you mean?”
“That’s your ender? Fucking jumping over trash cans?”
“‘Ender’? What are you talking about?”
That’s when I realized that these motherfuckers were trying to get big ass jawdropper tricks for the little finales. I’d never even considered that before.
Are you a battler? Going back multiple times for shit?
Oh yeah, I’ve definitely done that. I’ll go until I can’t anymore, and if I still haven’t gotten it, I’ll probably come back again tomorrow.
What was a notorious battle for you?
That switch backside flip at the Besos bump to bar in Spain.
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| photo: gee |
Now that’s an ender.
That shit was gnarly, man. But what made it fun is that I got to skate with Appleyard there a bunch. He kills that spot. Those are some of the most fun sessions I've ever had. Because he’ll start cooking off tricks over that thing... back 360s and nollie bigspins. Just destroying it. Then we started messing around with melonchollies and indy grabs over it. So much fun.
How do you go about skating something like that?
Honestly, my process is ass-backwards at spots like that because I always go way too fast in the beginning. I usually start off by rolling up to it and jumping off my board, over the rail. I’ll probably do that 15 times or so. Then I’ll start slightly popping the tail, but still jumping over it. Popping a little more each time. So yeah, it’s like an hour before I even try the damn trick.
My problem is that I’m always trying to learn the bail first. I’ll spend an hour learning how to get out of a trick before I actually try to land it. And it sucks doing it that way, dude! It takes forever! By the time I’m finally trying it for real, I’m already halfway worn out… then I get stuck in the pattern of the bail and not the actual trick. It’s the worst.
How many times did you go back?
I probably went back six times over the course of two years. This is when I used to fly out to Spain and stay for a few weeks. I’d try it a couple times, not get it and come home. Fly back out the following winter and try it again.
Actually, the first couple times, I was trying it in a line. Backside flip off the curb, push through the humps and then switch backside flip the bar. It was miserable. After a while, I just had to cut that extra shit out.
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| "Seemed like a good idea at the time." |
How much of Lennie’s Timecode part did you see go down?
I got to see a lot of it go down, yeah.
When did all the religious stuff come into play?
About halfway through everything, which was wild to watch. I hate to say it, but I had to distance myself from Lennie back then. I love him to death, but at the time, I just couldn’t put up with it anymore. Always telling me that I was going to hell for this or that.
One time, I remember him taking a bus out to Dallas to meet up with me and film for Timecode. He actually got a bunch of footage on that trip, but I had to cut it short, man. I had to drop him off at the bus station a week earlier than we were originally planning because my homies were gonna fucking destroy him, dude. Because he was always doing his little sermons and telling people they’re going to hell. I tried to tell him, “Lennie, this ain’t the time or place to be doing that.”
He just wouldn’t listen. He even started coming at me. Like, one day, he goes, “Kalis, you’re going to hell for wearing that necklace. You’re representing a female.”
I can handle that because it’s Lennie. He’s my homie and that’s just how he gets sometimes. But dude, my other homies were over it. I guess he tried preaching to them about drinking 40s and shit. They had to pull me aside, like, “Yo, we know he’s your boy but he’s really gotta go… or who knows what the fuck is gonna happen.”
I had to take him to bus station, man. I remember I had Smooth Da Hustler playing in the car and he started doing some religious rap over top of the radio. So, I turned my Smooth Da Hustler up to try and drown him out, but then he started yelling his shit. Screaming his little religious raps when I’m just trying to listen to the song. I couldn’t handle it.
(laughs) Did you ever see him speak in tongues or try to heal people?
Honestly, whenever Lennie would start getting into that shit, I’d dip out. But yeah, he was doing that for a while.
Bo Turner has come at you a lot over the years, including accusations of you getting guys booted off Alien. What are your thoughts on that?
Dude, I have no clue where all that came from. Not even the slightest idea.
Granted, you were still new on the team, but what did happen to all those guys after Timecode?
I have no idea… Is that what Bo’s talking about? Some Alien shit?
Yeah, Bo’s theory is that you gave an ultimatum where some guys had to go or you were going to leave.
Fuck no, dude! I’ve never done that in my life! No way!
Anyone skating for a company that I’m part of, I don’t give a fuck. Especially with Alien, we all lived in different parts of the country. And those guys were the OGs! No way. The only maneuver I ever tried at Alien back then was trying to put Stevie on. They just wouldn’t do it for some reason.
But no, I don’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. That shit never happened.
It’s weird, though, because something like that supposedly happened at DC, too. It didn’t have shit to do with anything I said, but I had people looking at me over there as well.
This was in the early DC days, because I got yelled at for wearing different shoes to dinner when we were in Paris on the Supertour. Damon Way, co-owner of DC at the time, saw my shoes and was like, “What’s up? You riding for them now?”
“Nah, but you guys don’t pay me enough to chill in my DCs.”
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| photo: blabac |
(laughs)
Dude, the whole fucking squad went after me. Everybody, even Dyrdek. Those dudes beat me up bad, dude. Right there at dinner. It was gnarly.
I was like, “Look, if I ever have a pro shoe, I won’t wear anything else. You guys all have pro shoes, so you get paid a bunch of money. I don’t. I get paid $1,000 a month and that’s to skate for DC. I’m not skating right now.”
“So, if Puma offered you a bunch of money to skate for them, you’d do it?”
“Fuck yeah! Of course!”
I feel like it kinda became a thing after that. And once I got home from that trip, I got an offer. I was actually getting mad offers at the time: Adio, Axion, Dukes, Duffs. And I gotta admit that the Adio offer was pretty enticing. $4,000 a month and my own signature shoe within the first year? I was like, “Yoooooo! I’m about to get paid!”
I talked to Dyrdek about it and he’s pleading with me. “Don’t quit, dude. I’m telling you. Don’t fucking do it.”
Apparently, there was a meeting at DC around this time to decide who got the next pro shoe. My name came up and Ken Block ended up calling me about it, like, “Why should we give you a pro shoe?”
Because back then, it was only older guys getting pro shoes.
My response was, “When does a skateboard company turn someone pro? When they’re hot. So what’s the difference with turning someone pro for a shoe company?”
A week later, I got the call that I was getting DC’s next pro shoe. Like, oh shit! I was so hyped. But right after that, everybody seemed to quit DC: Carroll, Rick Howard, Caine Gayle, Moses, Scott Johnston, Huf. They all dipped, and I have no idea why. Is it because I got the next shoe and some of those dudes didn’t? I don’t know how real any of that is, but that’s what I’ve been told.
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| photo: gee |
Switching gears, why is Sixth Sense your favorite part?
Because it was kinda random to make, which made it more fun. I got Stevie in there, too.
Out of all the parts I’ve made, I had the most freedom with Sixth Sense. Like, these are the tricks I want, this is the song I want, these are the homies I want in there with me. And I basically got everything I wanted.
Were Sixth Sense and Peep This largely filmed together? And where does Photosynthesis fall into all this? Because this was all filmed in that same 1998-2000 era.
I was just skating a lot. I’d skate in Philly during the week and then head up to New York for the weekend. Love would normally get blown out on weekends so I’d go up there and film with RB. Photosynthesis came a little later than those two but always had priority.
You had several clips over Brooklyn Banks wall around this time, which one stands out to you?
The biggest battle was that switch backside flip in the Transworld video.
The half-cab heel wasn’t that bad because I’d been battling a half-cab flip for a long time. Again, I had to switch it up. And half-cab heels have a tendency to boink up like that sometimes.
Like that infamous flatground fakie flip at Seaport?
(laughs) Basically, yeah.
I don’t remember the switch heel being that big of a battle, and I don’t even remember the switch backheel at all. But that switch backside flip was heavy.
How come you never moved to NYC?
Because Philly had my heart. In my mind, there was nothing in New York that even came close to Love Park.
How so?
I was drawn to Love Park for a couple reasons. One, it reminded me of that EMB scene back in the day. And two, it was a massive “fuck you” to Oyola and those guys. A massive one. Because I was never supposed to come back there, you know? Now, I’m not only setting up shop at Love but also using it to help put other people on.
Plus, I realized when you attach yourself to something, like a city or a plaza, and take that on as a part of your identity, it adds more substance to how people look at you.
It adds another dimension to your name.
Exactly, so when that window of opportunity popped up again for Love after laying kinda dormant for a while, that’s when I grabbed Stevie. Like, “Dude, this is it. We can really do something here.”
He knew right away what I was talking about, but I also wanted to do it a little different than before. I didn’t want any of that “no switch mongo or you’re not getting footage” shit. None of those bullshit-ass rules. If you rip, you’re getting footage. Simple at that. No one is stopping anyone from doing anything. We’ll even help you if we can. Because the way I looked at Embarcadero, you had your top dogs putting the plaza on but you also had all the supporting guys, too. The up-and-coming dudes and guys with personality. All that stuff is just as important, in its own way. That’s why it worked. And we had all that shit in Philly, too, it was just up to the skaters to make it happen.
I’ve always wondered if you kept pushing switch mongo out of spite.
(laughs) Nah, I honestly think switch mongo looks better. Because you’re pushing your stance. Whether that’s fakie or normal, that’s your push.
Let me put it into perspective: Eric Koston did a line at Sants in Barcelona. I can’t remember the first trick, but then he does a fakie flip and a switch flip. He’s pushing switch mongo the entire time. If he would’ve been pushing switch regular for all that, I wouldn’t have any interest. But you watch that line and how he pushes, it’s amazing. Or how Gino pushes. If Gino was pushing switch, it wouldn’t have that same Gino thing going. Because Gino’s got a badass push, but you really get to see it when he’s pushing fakie. That’s when you get to see how his shoulders move a certain way but his leg is going another way. To me, that’s style.
The quintessential plaza skater, why no Pulaski clips?
Actually, I did get one a few years ago. I got a back noseblunt transfer on that skinnier outledge.
Okay, one Pulaski clip in 30 years. But D.C. isn’t that far from Philly.
Because every time I felt like going somewhere, I went to New York. The few times I’ve been to Pulaski, I always found that plaza hard to skate. The ledge is more of a marble than granite and I’m terrible at marble ledges. But hey, shout out to all the Pulaski skaters and big up to Tink Harper, who’s currently my favorite skate to watch.
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| photo: gee |
What about California picnic tables?
No, I don’t like the fiberglass. They’re either too slick or too sticky. I didn’t grow up around fiberglass so it always felt foreign to me. And those tables are just tall enough to where if you’re not used to the height, you either gotta gap in over the bench or do the whole thing. And for me, they’re just a little long for how tall they are.
Over the course of my research, I counted a total of five Josh Kalis manual clips, which is odd because your friend Stevie is basically the manual master.
(laughs) I know, dude. I’ve tried to learn that shit for so long… I just suck at manuals, man. Straight up. There are two things in skating that I’m super bad at, one of them is manuals and the other is doing shit out of tricks. I don’t know if it’s just how my body is built, but I can’t do shit while I’m doing shit.
(laughs) What do you mean?
If I’m doing a back nosegrind, I can’t adjust my body to do anything else. I just gotta come out of the nosegrind. I can’t flip out or any of that. Maybe I’m just too stiff? I don’t know. But that and manuals? Nah.
I’ve tried so hard to learn manny shit in the past. Even the ones you’ve seen me do, like switch heel manny or tre flip manny, those are typically the easiest manual tricks for everybody else. They’re still fucking hard for me. Manuals are my kryptonite.
Why was Habitat wack?
I thought Habitat was wack strictly out of loyalty to Dyrdek. Rob had a situation where he already had the name “Habitat” for something and didn’t necessarily want them to use it for the brand. And then there’s the fact that they gave the brand to Castrucci and not Rob. Whatever. These weren’t necessarily my beefs, but because Rob is my friend and I was in Philly where most of the Habitat riders were, I was just being loyal to Dyrdek. I didn’t really have any animosity. Kerry, Pluhowski and those dudes… we never really had any beef. There might’ve been some weird vibing going on, but we still skated together.
It wasn’t like Rob was telling me to hate on shit. I would just take his feelings and verbalize them as if they were my own. But at the end of the day, I personally didn’t give a shit. I just acted like I gave a shit. Just being immature, I guess.
Was Photosynthesis more of a “project” than previous parts?
Honestly, Sixth Sense is the only one that I can pull out as an actual project from back then. More than Photosynthesis. Because I was filming so much, it’s hard for me to remember what the orders were. I call them “orders” because, for me, it’s just a phone call from somebody telling me to go film for whatever.
“Hey, we’re doing this.”
That’s the majority of them, except for Sixth Sense… Mind Field, too, with how Kalis In Mono came about. But the rest are kind of a blur.
Freddie Foxxx was your thinly veiled statement on Philly at the time, correct?
Yeah, I just felt like a lot of dudes were bitter back then. Nobody was having fun. Dudes were just sitting around, complaining about everything. Holding themselves back.
Was there a lyric that stood out to you, in particular?
Probably the intro of the song, which wasn’t even used in my part. That’s what probably summed up my feelings the best. But there were a few other things in there, too. “A shoebox of hundred-dollar bills” always stood out, but I really liked “Being a bitch must be fulfilling, because there’s a lot of people getting soft just chilling.”
There were a bunch of one-liners in there that I liked, but it was the intro that really did it for me. As a matter of fact, I’ve thought about using just that intro for something over the years. I’m just not mad about that stuff anymore, so it doesn’t really make sense.
Did anybody in Philly pick up on it?
To be honest, all that shit was probably in my head. Like, I used to have visions that Kerry and those dudes were hating on me… but maybe they weren’t. You get so caught up in shit, sometimes things can get a little weird, you know? But whether it was real or not, I was definitely using that as a motivation.
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| photo: gee |
Were there any other songs you meant as statements?
Mind Field was gonna be a big statement for me. I ran through a bunch of songs on that one, but they always got denied for whatever reason. I really wanted to use KRS-One’s “Outta Here” but Bobby Puleo skated to it before I could.
Why that song?
At the time, I felt like I was the only one really working on the video. Because my part was already done and now I had to wait? That and I felt like people were maybe hating on me… Again, it’s hard to tell, but that was my motivation. Real or not, if I feel like people are hating or trying to hold me back, that only motivates me more.
So you filmed two parts for Mind Field instead.
Man, the whole thing with Kalis In Mono was so frustrating. Because for EST and Peep This, all those side things I did, I always had control of the footage because I was working with independent filmers. We could do whatever we wanted to with it. But when the staff videographers stepped in, I didn’t realize that Alien would then own that footage. If an employee films something, the company owns the footage. I didn’t know that. So when they wanted to hold my footage for another year, there wasn’t much I could do about it. And I was super pissed, man. I didn’t want to be sitting on that footage forever, let’s just put it out there and I’ll go film some more.
Mono was basically a compromise. Because they wouldn’t allow me to use that footage the way I wanted to, it had to be something they wanted to do. So a lot of my song choices at that time came out of frustration… Or when Flo Marfang came to Philly and the Habitat guys hated on him at the Alien Park. I got so mad at that shit. But the only way I could really express it without beefing with dudes was to put it out in a song. They’re not even my words but it does express how I feel.
I’ve heard you don’t like your DC part. Why not?
Because I sent in six minutes of footage and the final part only ended up being three minutes long.
No input with the edit?
I tried to have input. I remember coming with specifics of how I wanted things to look. Telling Greg which tricks should go where, because I had specific reasons for filming a lot of that stuff.
I still have the tape they sent, I just came across it the other day. It says “Kalis Test Edit – DC Video”. Little did I know that “Test Edit” was my video part. I thought it was just a draft. Because I responded back on a phone call, asking where the rest of my footage was.
“Oh yeah, I forgot you wanted to do it that way.”
Because, like I said, I had it all laid out. But I never got another test edit and when I went to premiere, that test edit was my part.
I’m not super mad about it, I just felt that it could’ve been so much better. Because I was basing my idea around Carroll’s Questionable part. A couple of songs, lots of lines. Lines that backed up other lines, mimicking other clips I had. None of that was in there. It all ended up in the bonus section of the DVD.
I remember wanting to get the first bigspin backtail on a ledge in my part, but Rob Welsh beat me to it in a Transworld video. No big deal. Just a little friendly competition, you know? But The DC Video actually came out before his TWS video, it’s just that trick wasn’t in my part. Little shit like that.
You originally wanted to skate to “Skillz” by Gangstarr and Fugazi?
Well, I didn’t really want to skate to Gangstarr, but if it had to be them, I wanted it to be “Skillz”. I didn’t pick “Full Clip”, Greg did. I wasn’t even on that Gangstarr tip for my part, because I felt like all their best songs had already been used. Whether it was “Code of the Streets” in 411 or “DWYCK” in the Underworld Element video, all my favorite Gangstarr songs had been used. But at the time, “Skillz” wasn’t even out yet.
So yeah, it was supposed to be “Skillz” and “Promises” by Fugazi.
Why “Promises”?
I just liked that one. It was either gonna be that or “Suggestion”. Just something different, you know?
What was the original concept behind Seek?
Seek was mostly Dyrdek’s deal. I just rode for it as a loyalty thing to Rob. That’s my dude, he’s finally getting his chance to do this company through Alien. Of course, I’m gonna ride for it. 100%. But that was all Dyrdek. man. I was totally oblivious to whatever was going on behind the scenes.
But why didn’t it work?
Everything I heard was that a third board company was too overwhelming for Alien. Trying to get all the artwork for all those different companies. Between Alien, Habitat, Seek and Reflex, my guess is that they maybe bit off a little too much. That’s what I always heard.
Colin has said that Seek was essentially “stillborn” after the whole Stevie debacle in the beginning. Would you agree with that?
I don’t think so. The goal for Seek was to be a multinational board company, with guys like Flo and Carolino. They could live in their respective countries and not have to come to the U.S. in order be a pro skateboarder. We wanted it to be a worldwide thing. That’s what I thought it was, and that’s what we did. So, in my mind, Seek was successful because we achieved what we set out to do. Alien just couldn’t handle the additional production end of it.
How was it returning to Alien afterwards? Did it feel the same to you? And do you think that you were looked upon differently by the other guys?
I just remember feeling like I was home again. Yeah, there were a few new guys in the mix, like Heath and Berra. Newer guys that weren’t around when we went off to Seek. But to be honest, I didn’t give a shit how they felt. If they were at all uncomfortable with Rob and I coming back to Alien, they could fuck off. Alien was our home. Yeah, we went to Seek, but we’re back. And Seek was still a part of this whole thing. Y’all are new here. I honestly didn’t care what anybody thought.
Did you get the Alien finger tattoo?
No, I didn’t. I don’t think you should ever get a company tattoo because that shit can change.
Well, you’ve mentioned not being consulted on Alien decisions after your return. Like what, exactly?
I just felt that the company was starting to go in this whole other different direction. It wasn’t that I was looking to be a consultant and trying to get my voice heard. Nothing like that. It was more that I personally didn’t like what they were going for. It was starting to remind me of when I was on Toy Machine, because the fit just wasn’t there anymore. But Alien was different because I knew the people working behind-the-scenes knew what the fit was and what formulas worked, they were just allowing outsiders to come in and remake everything. Making it all look and feel different.
It was frustrating, because whenever I’d tell them this, they’d always be like, “Kalis, you’re always talking shit.” But I was serious! After a while, I started wondering if I actually wanted to be part of it anymore.
Why?
There were two things that made me realize I had to get out of there. I can’t remember which came first, but the first thing was when I heard the rumor that Alien was selling to Burton. Honestly, I didn’t give a shit if Burton bought Alien or not. Whatever. But when I asked Carter about it, he goes, “No, dude. And you should know that you’d be one of the first people to know if something like that was ever going to happen. That ain’t happening.”
Two weeks later, it fucking happened. I woke up to “Alien sold to Burton!” This dude just straight lied to me. Carter was always like a father figure to me, and I’d never had that before. I talked to him every single day. So, that lie was a big one.
The second thing happened one day when I was at Pyramid Ledges. Grant Taylor had just got on the team and he was there that day, too. I’d never met him before, so I went up to talk to him and the dude didn’t shake my hand. There was no introduction. No “What’s up?” No nothing towards a dude who’d been on Alien for years. Not that I expect that… And don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with Grant, either. I understand that nobody owes me shit. But I saw this as, “Wow… okay. I guess this isn’t my deal anymore.”
So, instead of causing a ruckus or whatever, I’m out. If this ain’t my place anymore, I’m out. No beating around the bush or any of that. And I let Carter know early on, too. Like, “Yo, I’m only riding for Alien right now for a paycheck. If you want to kick me off, kick me off. But just so you know, I’m looking into doing something else.”
Were you hesitant to work with Greg again for Mono / Mind after The DC Video?
No, because I’d given up by that point. I gave up, dude. I had such a hard time with Alien about the Kalis In Mono thing. Then, when it came to putting together my Mind Field part and the songs I wanted to use, it was just deny, deny, deny. So when I came across “Boombox” from Bullymouth, I decided right then and there that I was going to use it just to piss off everyone else in the video. But what’s interesting is that they actually agreed to it. I still can’t believe they allowed that in there. I knew at the time that it didn’t fit the rest of the video, but whatever.
But I feel like you could’ve skated to “Boombox” in Timecode and it would’ve been totally fine. Alien was just so different by the time Mind Field came out.
And that’s what I was trying to say by using that song. There were no lyrics in “Boombox” for me to make the point, like that Freddie Foxxx stuff. The song itself was making the point.
Because it wasn’t Animal Collective.
That’s some weird shit, dude. I can’t really say that I know who they are, but I know when I saw Jake’s part with that song, I was like, “Damn…”
I love Jake. And the skating in that part is incredible… Look, a lot of people might like Animal Collective and that song might make his part their all-time favorite, and that’s awesome. But for me, personally, I couldn’t get into the song. Same shit with Dill’s part. Great part, I just didn’t think the song worked.
No, that was Greg, but I really liked it.
And hey, even though I’m always barking at Greg about The DC Video, he’s a rad dude. Yeah, I got frustrated about whatever back in the day, but whenever I see that dude, it’s all love. He’s gotta know that. He’s a great dude.
For sure. But looking back, are you happy to have made two separate parts instead of saving it all for an epic Mind Field section?
I’m happy with how it is. I’m not a big fan of saving footage for years to have the ultimate video part, because how are you gonna live up to those expectations for your part after that? That’s gotta be stressful.
Did you have more input on Mono after the DC debacle?
No, I didn’t. That’s a good point, actually, but I love how Mono turned out.
Talk about the back 270 noseblunt in Barcelona with the shit under your board. That one always trips me out.
(laughs) I don’t know. There must’ve been a little gust of wind to kick that shit up underneath there but I just kept it moving. I’m not sure if I even noticed it at the time.
It’s almost like that line in Mind Field with the bug on the lens.
Dude! That was cool, too! I obviously had no idea that was on there so I was hyped to see that later. Just a bug up on the lens, chilling. I’m glad I made all that so we could use the clip!
What all did you save for Mind Field from the early Mono filming?
The treflip noseblunt. Definitely the switch backside flip at Besos, because I thought that was going to be my ender until I filmed the bigspin backtail.
I filmed a lot after Mono, actually. All that Frisco shit, like the 360 flip over the driveway. The only stuff we saved from those early days was whatever Barcelona footage.
So were you constantly on filming missions in the van or were you off by yourself?
I was off by myself.
Do you think that possibly contributed to Dill’s “upriver” comment? Because he wasn’t seeing you in his immediate vicinity?
Oh, I never thought about it like that. I don’t know… I don’t know where all that “upriver” shit came from. I feel like that was probably on the same shit Bo is on. That or it’s me being oblivious to something I’m doing. Something that people are catching feelings on and I don’t even realize.
I did go on one or two little trips with “The Hat” and all that, but I was rarely in the van. My whole career has been lone wolf-style, as far as who I film with and where I’m filming. Rarely have I filmed with the staff filmer.
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| photo: blabac |
I feel like your Mind Field part doesn’t quite get the credit it deserves.
I actually prefer that it was a little under the radar. It keeps me motivated.
But even that switch front big heel at Miley doesn’t get its flowers, which is insane. Was that a battle?
Yeah, because of the run-up. Getting enough speed was the hardest part of that. Do I come from this way? What about coming from over there? Would straight-on work better? Because that concrete ends pretty short, then it’s all grass. So yeah, it was hard to get enough speed.
What about the switch heel body varial over the barrier?
That actually came from Appleyard. I saw him do one over a bump to bar and thought it looked sick. Let me give this a try. Unfortunately, mine did not look like Appleyard’s, that’s for sure.
You entertained an Apples project before leaving for DGK, right?
Yeah, we talked about it before I left Alien but it never came together. Like, we never had a name or anything. It was just something we kicked around for a minute. It would’ve been dope but nah, it never happened. And in the process of all that is when I came to the realization, “Why don’t I just ride for DGK?”
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| photo: blabac |
Could you see the collapse of Alien coming?
Fuck yeah! That shit was easy to see. Because when something’s always had a certain aesthetic, whenever you start to see that shit going in a different direction, there’s trouble. I can’t think of one brand that’s gone through any type of drastic change like that and made it. Not one. And with Alien, I knew who was really calling the shots and the whole vibe seemed off. Shit was breaking down and I wasn’t going down with the ship.
You got on DGK during a pretty wild time at Kayo as well but you rode it out and now you're a partner there, right? How has that been? You know what they say about mixing friends and business…
Getting on DGK was a no-brainer. In my opinion, it’s the most authentic skateboard company to ever exist. The backstory is real, and it’s founded off plaza skateboarding and a “fuck you” to hate and oppression… “Don’t shoot photos of them! They just some Dirty Ghetto Kids!” Fucking amazing. Shout out to Stevie for having the brains and the balls for creating such a rad brand. DGK all day!
I guess there were some wild times after I got on, but I was oblivious to that. I was too focused on doing my thing. Driving from SD to LA every weekend to skate JKwon and the Berrics, filming for projects like Parental Advisory and Sabotage. And at the end of the day, Stevie and Troy (Morgan) made me a partner in DGK, which I will be forever grateful for.
So there wasn’t any truth to that rumor of you possibly going back to Alien?
Absolutely not. I mean, Alien barely even existed at the time. It might’ve been fun to think about for a second but no way. And nobody was calling me from over there, either. Who’s gonna call me?
Well, they definitely got in touch when you had that Alien Abduction board.
They didn’t call me but they called DGK, that’s for sure. (laughs)
I don’t even know what they were so mad about. I thought that graphic was a dope ode to those dudes. It wasn’t meant to be a diss… although before it came out, I do remember somebody at DGK saying, “Yo, they’re gonna be hella bummed on this.”
“Nah, dude. This is sick!”
No, they were fucking bummed.
Carter never called you?
No, but I ran into him later and he was like, “Dude, that was just crazy!”
“Nah, what’s crazy is that you guys sent a letter! That’s crazy.”
The cool thing is when we came out with a second version of that board, there was no pushback. Alien even commented on the Instagram post with a laughing emoji. They seemed okay with it this time around.
Where’d the idea for fakie 5-0-front foot impossible come from?
We were playing a game of SKATE at Black Box one day on the euro gap. And for some reason, I can front foot impossible up euro gaps pretty decent. I started thinking how it sucks that front foot impossibles have always been considered a “treat”. That it would be sick to do something with a front foot impossible that was dope, you know? And the only trick I could think of was a fakie 5-0. Because a front foot impossible into anything is a treat. A tailslide-front foot impossible out is a treat. But a fakie 5-0 front-foot impossible could be fresh, you know? I got lucky, too, because I’m on my heelside so hard with fakie 5-0s that it kinda naturally goes into a front shuv. A front foot impossible isn’t that much of a stretch.
Why do you think you’ve found yourself in so many beefs over the years?
I don’t know, man. And it’s getting worse, not beefs but just speaking my mind. I don’t mean to generalize but people don’t like to have the truth thrown at them. And I learned a long time ago that the best way to conduct yourself is to always be upfront. Don’t lie, unless you’re trying to protect somebody’s feelings. And if you don’t have anything nice to say, sometimes you just shouldn’t speak… it’s just hard for me to allow people to believe something that I know isn’t true. That, and I’m terrible at sugarcoating shit.
Yeah, you’ve had a consistent presence on Slap over the years. I’ve even seen you give out your phone number on there.
Yeah, if you have a question or want to ask me about something, hit me up. If I answer, I’ll talk to you for a little while. It’s better than starting some bullshit rumor.
Why the move back to Michigan?
I had to get out of SoCal, man. I was getting too comfortable. And at the same time, there was starting to be a resurgence again in Philly with Penny and the Sabotage guys. Kids were starting to buy old Kalis shoes and skating them. Like, I remember Jahmir (Brown) sending me a photo of him and (Kevin) Bilyeu under the Love sign, just like Stevie and I back in the day. I knew I wanted to get involved with that on some level.
It just so happened that our neighbor in SoCal sold their house for twice as much as they paid for it, which got me thinking. I told my wife, “Yo, we can move back to Michigan and make a bunch of money, get ourselves setup, and I’ll just fly back-and-forth to Philly all the time.”
It’s one of the best decisions I ever made. I just use that flight as a bus route. Chicago is close as well, which is another one of my old stomping grounds. It just made a lot of sense. I really get to put my platform and contacts to use by opening doors for these new cats. Giving them the same opportunity that people gave me when I was coming up. Not to mention that I got to come home, buy a house and a bunch of property…
A Lamborghini.
A Lamborghini. A bunch of guns. We got it all. (laughs)
So what’s next, Josh?
There’s a lot coming up, man. 2023 makes 25 years for me on DC and we have a lot of cool shit in the works. I can’t give away too many details right now but I’m definitely looking forward to next year. There’s gonna be a whole lotta Truth out there. (laughs)
Big thanks to Josh, Jaime Thomas, Mike Blabac, Ryan Gee,
Jonathan Mehring, Jaime Owens, and Closer Mag.
1 comment:
New issue was incredible! Cant wait for the next one.
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