chrome ball interview #74: kris markovich

 chops and markovich sit down for conversation. 

Be honest. Within the history of skateboarding, where you’re undoubtedly a legend, do you feel like you get enough credit? Because I’ll go ahead and say that you don’t. Why do you think people tend to focus more on all your sponsorship changes and not your accomplishments? That has to drive you crazy, right?

It used to. I don’t really give a shit anymore. To be honest, I look back on everything now and I feel kinda torn about things because I’m a totally different person now, in a totally different place in my life. I would’ve definitely handled some of these things differently now. Things I’ve done and the reasons I left those companies in the past, I would’ve handled completely different. But at the same time, I am who I am now because of those situations, for better or for worse. I love who I am and would never change that. I dealt with a lot of bullshit and now have a thick skin because of it. I’ve learned patience because it’s the problems that end up largely creating who you are. But yeah, it’s a tricky thing to look back on after having gone through it all.

If there is one thing I’d like to get out there… I know that my leaving all these companies has almost become the joke of the industry, but I feel like if anybody else was in those same positions, they would’ve done the same thing. They would’ve walked out with middle fingers high, just like I did. There were reasons for every single time I left a sponsor. 99% of them largely came from me being stubborn, but I did feel like I was leaving for valid reasons at the time, every time. I mean, we could go through everything for the next 3 hours, and not too long ago, I probably would’ve. I would’ve sat here, dropped names and thrown everyone under the bus. And I’m sorry because I know that would be a juicy little interview for you, but I’ve let all that go. What’s done is done and I realize that my actions are what ultimately put me into those positions… but at the same time, I can honestly say that I never bent. I always did me and did what I wanted to do. If people want to laugh and look at me like I’m some kinda joke, they can go eat a dick. I don’t care. I did what I did. 

But you were so important in the development of street skating! I always see these lists of “pioneers” floating around and your absence is unfortunately common and a huge oversight. That has to be maddening. 

I’ll admit that I do feel overlooked sometimes, but it’s easy when you’re out of sight, out of mind. One reason I don’t pop up on some of these lists is that I purposefully checked out of skateboarding for a few years. There could be something to that, but ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just a piece of wood with wheels on it. Whatever. 

Don’t get me wrong: Skateboarding is amazing. I’ve had a lot of fun doing it and met a lot of amazing people. But at the end of the day, skateboarding is what I did, never who I was. 

How is Elephant going? You guys have quietly built an amazing team of tried-and-true rippers. Stoked to see you back in the mix. 

Elephant is amazing. It’s good to be a part of an operation with someone like Mike who understands what I’ve been through in my career. Because, let’s face it, Mike has been through quite a number of companies, too. (laughs)

(laughs) Yeah, I was gonna ask if you guys had any money on who was going to leave first?

(laughs) No, but there were jokes about putting a stipulation in my contract entitling Mike to beat my ass if I ever quit. I’d literally have to fight Mike to leave. 

For the record, how many board companies have you ridden for?

All of them, right? Isn’t that what everybody says? (laughs)

Honestly, I don’t even know. If you have a second, we can count it out. Just board sponsors? Epic, Toxic, Dogtown, G&S, 101, Color, Prime, Element, Foundation, Hollywood, Blind, Crimson, Given, Elephant.

14.

I actually rode for Foundation a couple times, once while I was still riding for 101. Not really sure how that happened.

We’ll get into that, but I have to ask with all those companies, is there one you look back on and regret leaving? 

There are a few I regret leaving, for sure. I regret leaving Element when I did from a sheer monetary standpoint… and if anybody has anything negative to say about that, they can eat a dick. I literally live paycheck-to-paycheck now, selling paintings. I am legitimately a struggling artist.

You dipped right before that Bam golden ticket arrived. 

Yeah, and the reason I left at that point was 100%, too. It was pretty messed up how that went down, but I won’t throw anybody under the bus. Not gonna directly point fingers or name names. 

It’s not like I dwell on all this stuff or anything. I follow Element and I’m friends with Johnny. I’m still down with all those dudes over there. I liked working with them. But at the same time, I feel like I was a large part in helping that brand get to where it is today and I didn’t see a dime of that. I mean, I made Featherlight and got burned on that. 

How so? 

Featherlight was supposed to be exclusive to Element for six months, which was good because I worked really hard with Paul Schmitt on that. We came up with that, which was so tedious. But Featherlight bought people houses. Cars and shit. Prior to that, PS Stix was on 6-hour shifts making boards, but when Featherlight came out, Element shot up to #1 in board sales and PS couldn’t make enough of them. And then it got opened up to Alien and all these other companies, which I’m fine with that. I’m happy to progress skateboarding with lighter, thinner high-quality boards. I’m proud of that. But in the end, they gave me $10 grand for it and a little bonus. 

At the time, I thought it was cool, but I didn’t know the impact that construction would make for Giant. PS Stix had to move to a 24-hour shift and they still weren’t making enough. That’s how much Featherlight helped with profits. So, they all got paid and I quit. And now they’re huge. 

Is there an offer you wish you would’ve taken but didn’t?

A few random ones which would’ve been good side money, you know? Out-of-industry sponsorships that I thought were kinda corny but probably should’ve taken… especially with where some of those companies are now. It wasn’t anything that would’ve been embarrassing, just kinda weird at the time. Like, I could’ve been the first person to do an energy drink ad, but at the time, I wanted nothing to do with it. It was from outside of the skateboarding industry, which I wanted to remain special. But skateboarding sucks now. There’s nothing pure about it. Some things remain good, but the whole thing is skewed. 

I sound like a jaded, old guy, but I’m really not. I’m just not a spring chicken anymore. I’m 41, which is old… in skateboarding anyway. And as you get older, you can look back and see how things have changed. Like, I remember I was a kid in Georgia, I had fucking rednecks throwing shit at me out of cars. We were total outcasts, hated everywhere. Now there are skate coaches! Riders have bagel sponsors! It’s fucking everywhere and it’s accepted. That will always be weird to me.

It’s an odd feeling to know that I had a hand in getting skateboarding to this point. Not necessarily a direct influence, but I was part of skateboarding when this stuff was just starting to come around. Like, I had corporate sponsors. I had Red Bull. I didn’t get that big Red Bull money at the time, but I have to share some of the blame. 

What was it like growing up as a street skater in the South during the 80s? Didn’t you have beef with some Zorlac dudes at one point? Scott Stanton?

Well, you’ve done your research but not all of it. I actually started out skating vert… not 100%, but that’s what I really wanted to skate. It was all just skateboarding back then, anyway.

When we moved to Florida, I lived “down the highway” from Gulf Breeze, which is where I got my first board. Nothing serious. I just rode around my driveway and jumped off dumpsters. I learned 360s in my basement. Shit like that. 

Six months later, we moved into Gulf Breeze proper and a few blocks away from me was this kid with an 8’ vert ramp. I started going over there every day after school for the next year or two. And that’s really how I started, skating ramps. I was such a tool, though… total flat rat. It was so stupid, because I could do frontside airs a foot or two out, but I was too afraid to drop in. I’d always start on the flat bottom. It got to the point where I went over there one day and they literally wouldn’t let me skate unless I dropped in, so I had to do it. I still remember finally dropping in and actually getting pissed because I’d been skating this ramp for three months without dropping in. 

My family ended up moving back to Georgia and that’s when I started shifting more toward street and jump ramps. When I was 16, I fell on a kickflip and broke my elbow. It freaked me out, so I started going to Don Hillsman’s house to skate. He had a vert ramp, so I was messing around on that again. He was a huge influence on me, actually. That guy was amazing. Still is. 

After that, we ended up moving back to Florida and this is where the Scott Stanton thing comes into play. I was in the 11^th grade when we moved back and was already sponsored. My elbow was healed and I had become just a straight-up street skateboarder at this point. We were living in Pensacola this time, which actually had two YMCAs with skate stuff: one had a mini ramp and street course and the Langley YMCA with a vert ramp and really big mini ramp. There was legitimate beef between these two Ys, because it was basically vert guys versus the street skaters. They really didn’t like each other but I got the pass because I could skate vert.  

You have to remember that Pensacola was super heavy into Zorlac back then. They had this weird Pensacola-Texas connection. Scott Stanton lived there, and he was your typical gnarly late 80s Zorlac dude. Full-on dreads and tattoos. But to me, it always seemed like he was street skating on vert. And this was well before everybody else was trying to do that. He just had one of those styles. We always got along, too. We were always friends. 

Later on, when I was on 101, I remember Natas and I trying to come up with graphics and I wanted to do a board making fun of Zorlac, specifically a Scott Stanton graphic. Nothing serious. Scott and I never had any beef, I was just fucking with him because he was my friend. It was a total joke. 

It’s funny because I remember Natas saying, “We’re probably gonna sell a whole two of these.” (laughs)

He meant it super sarcastic and I felt like a total asshole… but it ended up being one of our bestselling boards. Just the combination of a good graphic and good shape that I had worked on with Rodney. That one just jumped off. You’d see a lot of World riders with that one, actually. 

I know you hopped on Dogtown for a bit but the first time I remember seeing you skate was on post-Alien G&S. How’d you get hooked up with that crew? I remember it being right as the Alien guys were leaving, which were you ever an option for the Workshop? 

Yeah, there was a bit of talk about me on Alien before I moved to California, but nothing really came of it. I don’t want to say “regret” here, but Alien is one of those teams where I probably should’ve waited to see how things panned out… but that’s easy to say now. There was no way of knowing back then. 

That way it worked out was when I was still living in Pensacola, I was riding for Dogtown. I’d already met Duane Pitre by that point, and when I was a senior in high school, I took off to New Orleans and stayed with him for a week. Taking a week-long trip at that age was pretty epic, so I was psyched. And all we did was skate. I remember him having a box of those Street Chomp boards with the super steep concave and giant nose. He gave me one and talked to me for a bit, saying that I should try to ride for G&S. I was definitely interested. 

I ended up going to the NSA Finals for Dogtown that year and got second place. And because Justin Girard had just left for New Deal, Dogtown needed another pro. I guess they had told my dad if I placed in the top ten, they would turn me pro, but my dad didn’t say anything because he didn’t want to freak me out. So yeah, I just skated and lucked out with second place. That changed my whole outlook towards wanting to quit Dogtown for G&S. Because at the time, Dogtown was still pretty good. Scott Oster was still on and some of the newer guys were good, too. Wade was on. It was a rad thing. 

But back then, if you weren’t in California, you were like a red-haired stepchild or something, so my mom, my sister and I, along with Ted Newsome, all hopped in the car and moved out together. First, we drove to San Franciso and stayed out there for a couple weeks, but couldn’t really find a permanent place to stay that was in our budget. We were blowing through our money by staying in hotels and it started getting tense. Luckily, my mom had gone to school with some people living in San Diego, so we headed down there for a little break and to check things out. We’ll regroup down there and come back up… because at the time, we were already doing T-Bags. 

I had known Steve Ortega already, and I knew Dave Crabb from my Toxic Days, so I hit them up as soon as we got in the San Diego area. I link up with those dudes and they tell us where to stay. We’re skating around Vista, and I remember getting back to Ortega’s house to find out that my mom had left a message saying we’d rented a house in Carlsbad. We just ended up staying there. Cool. 

I kept skating with Ortega every day while Ted was skating with Jamie Mosberg, because he rode for Life’s a Beach. And that’s how we got linked up with that whole Encinitas-Reese Simpson crew. All these vert dudes. I even met Gator pretty much immediately, which at that point, I started skating with Gator every day. 

Yeah, I remember seeing photos of you at the trial. Never really knew the connection. 

Yeah, it comes from the whole San Diego move, which I was still riding for Dogtown, Venture Trucks, and K-9 wheels at the time. That was all in San Francisco, and I was supposed to move to San Francisco, but they had this thing where they wanted to both ride for them and work in their warehouse. And when I ended up moving to San Diego, they were super pissed.  They sent me a $50 paycheck for the wheels, and when I called to ask where the rest of my money was, they said they weren’t going to give me free money because I wasn’t working in the warehouse. 

“That doesn’t make any sense. You sell a skateboard with my name on it. Isn’t that how we make money? Why would I be working in the warehouse, too?”

I was dealing with all that and super stressed for my family… I actually remember Gator talking to me about things. Giving me career advice and telling me what to do. It’s wild, but he was still obviously Gator at the time! But yeah, Mikey Taylor was staying with him and Shannon May had come out, who I knew. So, I just immediately started hanging out with those guys. 

In the interim, when I had moved out, that’s when all those dudes left G&S to start Alien Workshop. Duane knew that I wanting to leave Dogtown, too, so he talked to all the Alien dudes about approaching me for Alien as well, which hadn’t really come out yet. I didn’t really know about any of this, and by the time it got back to me, I was already on G&S and working on the video. And it was shortly after that when those dudes came out with Alien Workshop. It wasn’t until afterwards that Duane told me about how there were going to ask me about Alien, but with all my G&S stuff happening, they decided to move on.

Honestly, I don’t know how far that really went in Alien, but it was a possibility. If I would’ve known, I maybe would’ve pursued it. I just didn’t know… and then Alien became Alien. I never really tripped on that one too hard, but I’ve always respected what they did.  

How was filming for Winona Ryders and how seriously did you take it? Because while the part was sick, you also had the escalator thing and that crazy butt ender. Was there a sense of camaraderie among the new G&S dudes to really come out swinging and rejuvenate the brand?

It was cool but a little weird. That was my first real taste of the industry. I didn’t really understand things and was constantly trying to figure it all out. All I knew was that we were filming for this video. It was always serious but never calculated. We’d just go out skating and get tricks. I didn’t know anything. I was the new kid… new to the team, new to California. I never had spots I wanted to go to, I would just go with whoever was in the car. It was always Gator, Mike Taylor and Shannon May. We’d just mob out everyday. Marc Hostetter was around a lot, too, and that’s when I started riding for A1 Meats. 

There was never a deadline or anything. We just skated and filmed. I mean, Willy was just a little kid at the time. We were all young, but I remember us really taking everything out on Mike Taylor. It seemed like everybody always had a problem with him. I don’t know if we didn’t like him necessarily. It just always seemed like he said and did corny shit. We couldn’t stand him. 

Why the beads in the mouth?

Perfectly reasonable explanation. It was never a gimmick or trying to do something kids might want to do. And people bring this up to me at least once a month. It’s the weirdest thing… I might as well start wearing them again. It won’t go away.  (laughs)

It came from when I first started seeing myself in photos, I used to make the worst faces. I still do, actually. I just saw a photo of me skating this contest a month ago and was like “Oh god!” I always stick my tongue out and make these stupid faces. 

Living in Pensacola, it was three hours from New Orleans, so there were always Mardi Gras beads around. Every kid has Mardi Gras beads in junk drawers and shit. When I was a kid, I had a tendency to chew on straws, but you weren’t allowed to have straws in class, so I started putting those beads in my mouth instead. I always removed two beads and then pushed two together so the string would be between my teeth and the two beads would be behind my teeth. I started wearing them around school like that, never even thinking about it. 

Once I started getting skate photos though, I noticed that every photo I had with the beads, I’d have a normal face. So, it just became this thing I did for three years until I finally taught myself to not make stupid faces while skating. Because if I’m just skating a mini-ramp or something where I don’t really have to concentrate, I won’t make a fucked-up face. But if I’m doing something technical, I’m sure it’s not good. Slow-mo a video part of mine and check out my face. It’s terrible.

So yeah, that’s the reason behind the beads. 

Another urban legend: Is it true that you wanted to reclaim the “Rick Flip” as the “Markovich Flip”?

No, never. Back when Rick was riding for Blockhead and I was still on G&S, we used to skate together all the time. Skate the Blockhead ramp or go street skating. But yeah, he totally did one in that Blockhead video down the Bank of America little three in Carlsbad, out front by the double-sided curb everyone used to always skate. He had a sequence of it around the time I met him, actually. 

It was Rick who first showed me that trick one day. I remember because the way he showed it to me, I learned it really quick. It was just a trick I got. And when we filmed Stun, I did it in a line… maybe more people saw Stun than that Blockhead video. I don’t know, but I learned it after Rick, from Rick. 

Maybe other people called it that? I have heard that from people but it never came out of my mouth. I never thought of it that way at all. 

How did 101 enter the mix? 

Well, like I said, I was hanging out with Rick Howard a lot. This was around the time when they had all those Europe contests in the summer, all coordinated to be on the weekends in different countries. Everyone would go and just tour through Europe, meeting up at all the contests. I went out there with G&S and Rick had gone with Blockhead, so we were on different tours, but would still meet up at all the contests to hang out. 

We get to Barcelona, and I’m with Remy, Blaize Blouin, Sean Miller, Mark Heintzman and the team manager, Tom Drake. We go out on our first night there, and I’m wearing a chain wallet. We’re in the Red Light District, which is the sketchiest fucking area around. I get jumped and got the shit kicked out of me. They were trying to steal my wallet but because I was wearing that chain wallet, it didn’t work. So, I end up pushing one of the dudes and got kicked in the face. It was over after that. I was out.

When I come to, I look around to see all my teammates handling these little Spanish men, beating some ass… but Tom wasn’t helping. He could’ve, but he didn’t, and I was bummed on that. I’d already had a little animosity towards him before all that for personal reasons. He was from Mississippi and I’d known him from back in the day. I know a few of the other guys were already uneasy with him, too. And then some more drama went down later in the week where he’d spent all of our per diem money partying. I was over it. I started kinda looking around after that. 

At the same time, I don’t know what happened with Rick and Blockhead, but he wanted to leave, too. So, we’re in Barcelona with everyone for the contest and we end up talking to Danny Way about what’s going on. He tells us to hop in with him, so I quit G&S, Rick quits Blockhead, and we jump in with H-Street. Danny gets us to the nearest shop and we trade in all our stuff for H-Street boards to ride. But the thing is, once we get back to Danny’s room, he asks Rick and I if we want to be on this new company in the works called “NXT”. Because if you look at some of Danny’s last tricks in Questionable, he does a front-foot impossible grab on vert while riding one of his VW boards. He has NXT written in marker on the bottom of his board. 

Another thing is, at the time, Jordan Richter was living at my house. While we’re in Europe all summer, Jordan is actually on the phone with Rocco, talking about me. I didn’t even know. But because Jordan was on Blind and always in the mix, he already knew the plan with Ternasky. And Rocco already knew who I was because he had put me on Venture back in the day. All of a sudden, I guess Mike Ternasky was asking Jordan about what I was doing and who I was going to skate for. I hadn’t even met Mike yet. So, obviously, my name is getting thrown around. 

Long story short, Rick and I were supposed to fly back home from London and go to this meeting where they were all going to start Plan B, but I didn’t fly back to California. I went to Memphis and stayed with my dad for a week. I remember when I got to my dad’s house, I called home and spoke to Jordan. He said that he needs the number of where I’m at, that somebody will be calling me. I honestly had no idea what was going on. 

I get the call. I can’t even remember who it was, they just go, “Oh, you’re on 101 now.”

“What?”

So, I guess they had the big meeting for Plan B. Natas wasn’t in the meeting but he was around and said that he wanted me on 101. It was just Gabriel and him back then, and he wanted to start expanding the team. So yeah, I just went with it. 

In hindsight, I maybe should’ve gone to Plan B as being in Questionable would’ve solidified me a little more. I feel like if I would’ve flown back with Rick and been in the Plan B meeting, I would’ve been on Plan B. But since I wasn’t there, I was out of sight and out of mind. Not a “fuck you”, they just had their own thing going after sitting in that meeting. I wasn’t there and Natas was looking for a rider. 

I didn’t care, though, because it was fucking Natas! He was my favorite skater ever. I will gladly skate for 101 over Plan B. I mean, at the time, nobody knew what Plan B would eventually become. 

I like you better on 101.

Looking back on it and knowing the type of person I am, I’m glad I went to 101, too.  If I had gone to Plan B, I would’ve either gotten really hurt or fucking done some stupid shit. Those Plan B dudes fucked around a lot and were doing a lot of fucked-up things back then… off the skateboard. I’m probably a better person from having not been around it. Sure, my career might’ve gone in a different direction, but I’m forever grateful I got to ride on Natas’s team. 

What was the story behind both the 902101 and Marky Markovich ads? Classic stuff but there has to be a story there…

I want to say the 902101 ad came from Natas and Leigh Petersen. I don’t really know much about that one. 90210 was fucking huge at the time and they were just a bunch of fucking pricks. Natas wanted to make fun of them so we just went with it. Anything goes. 

The Kris Kross/Marky Mark ad was along those same lines. Marky Mark was all over the place back then, on the radio and billboards, to the point where it became annoying. That “Good Vibrations” song was just everywhere… just like that “Jump” song Kris Kross had. It was huge. 

Honestly, the only reason I even agreed to do that ad was to get those black Shelltoe Adidas. As long as I got those shoes, I didn’t give a fuck. Plus, my trick was that backside heelflip down the little Carlsbad gap, which was a pretty big trick at the time. I felt like it was legit enough to outweigh all that other stuff. And it was World, anyway. They were always doing weird ads. Funny and cool. Looking back on it now, it’s a little crazy, but at the time, it was funny as shit. And the trick helped. 

Take about that classic Water Gap ollie in your TWS interview. How’d that go down? And is there video anywhere of it?

No, there’s no video of it. There’s so much shit I did with Sturt back then that I don’t have footage of because that’s the way Sturt is. But I’m blessed to have been able to shoot with him for that short amount of time. He’s shot some of the most memorable photos in skateboarding. 

I mean if you want some Sturt stories...

Of course. That was my next question. 

Alright, here are two quick ones that will help explain things better. 

There’s a shot of me doing a Japan Air down the Valley double-set. I’m not sure what magazine it was in, but I’m wearing a bright yellow shirt. No one had done anything down it at the time. Sturt told me to meet him there one day. When I show up, it’s summertime and school’s out, but there are all these maintenance works around the gap. All these cut branches and shit on the ground. They’re sweeping up the spot. But on closer inspection, I look up in the tree and it’s Sturt! Wearing a full maintenance uniform, cutting down branches and hanging up his flashes. He had stolen one of those uniforms and somehow got all the maintenance workers out there working for him. It was crazy. 

Another time, we were shooting this sequence where I did a lipslide to nosebluntslide on this ledge. I’d done it before and told Sturt that I wanted a sequence of it. Okay, cool. 

So, we go there and he’s setting up the shot. He had these 4x8 sheets of foamboard with reflective metal on them, which he was the only photographer in skateboarding really doing that at the time. He was always setting up these reflectors to bounce light off. It was amazing but took forever to set up. He’s always there way before you showed up, just to set up everything. You’d still have to wait around a little bit, but it wasn’t too bad. But because of this, I start doing a bunch of lipslides on the ledge to warm up. 

“Don’t fucking try it. If you make it, this whole thing is going to be a waste.”

“Okay. I’m just gonna pop one up to nosebluntslide just to get the feel of it.”

Sure as shit, I pop up in there and pop out perfectly, first try. He just looks at me and shakes his head.

“Don’t worry about it, man. It’s sliding really good. I’ll get another quick.” 

Seven rolls of film later, I’m still can’t get. I remember rolling back for another try and I hear this weird noise. I look over and he’s yanking the film out of his camera. He just throws it at me, like fuck you! And not joking around pissed, either. He’s legitimately fucking angry. Super mad. 

I did end up making it and we got the sequence, but he gave it to Natas for this weird little catalog zine thing. That was the only place it ever came out. Totally swept under the rug… which was like his little “fuck you” for making me waste his film. 

But yeah, I had seen the Water Gap a week before. We were shooting things for the interview, so I was out looking for spots. That gap was in this weird little closed-off area close to my house. I noticed that the driveway was chained off and started to wonder what was behind it, so I parked the car and walked back there. It led off into this little valley that turned out to be this relaxation lake for the people who work at the businesses there. There’s a little walk track around it and those are actually sculptures in the little pool. And that’s all that is. I immediately thought it would be sick to ollie it, but I didn’t quite know how to get out there in order to do it. 

I tell Sturt and we agree to meet out there. All I said was that there’s something cool that I might be able to do if we can figure out how I can get up there. That was it. But when I get there to check it out with him, he’s got this contraption already built with two ladders and a walkway for me to get across and climb up. He had it all figured out. 

We shot it right then. No coming back or anything, it just happened. That’s just how Sturt is. And that’s why there’s no footage, because I thought we were just there to look at it. I wasn’t planning on trying it that day, so there weren’t any filmers with us. Just Daniel. 

So good. 

The same thing happened when I went to fakie ollie the big Carlsbad High gap with him. We show up and Kelly Bird was already filming something on the little gap. There’s only 20 feet between the landings of these two gaps, but we’re already there. Dan just looks at me and goes, “Fuck it. Just do it.”

I walked up to the top, look at it, ollie it real quick, and the fakie ollied it on the fourth or fifth try. Super quick, in and out. The problem is that he fucking filmed it with the camera sideways for video grabs, but it just happened to be around the time that mags stopped using video grabs or something, so it never came out. It never got used. 

Do you have a personal favorite graphic from the 101 days? 

The Lowrider one was fun to do, just to spoof on Sal’s graphic… Although people thought I had beef with Sal because of that. It actually came from Sal and I going on a small tour in Illinois. He kept talking about that graphic and how sick it was, but I told him right then and there that I was going to make fun of it. Just as a joke, though. He was down for it. 

I also like the first 101 graphic I ever had, with the thumbs up Martian. That’s probably my favorite one.

How did you go about filming your 101 and Union video parts in 1992? Was that one and then the other or at the same time? 

I filmed 101 first. The majority of that was with Ricki Bedenbaugh before he moved back to Florida. We were both still in Carlsbad at the time, so we were filming a lot together. For Right to Skate, they’d gotten Jamie Mosberg, which was kind of a big deal. Because prior to that, I’d really only been filming with friends, not serious filmers.

Linking up with Jamie to film was a really memorable time for me. Super relaxed. He was living in La Costa and I was in Encinitas by then. We’d just hop in the car and go out filming. Linking up with whoever was on Union that happened to be around San Diego… and there were a lot of dudes around at that time. You could get some pretty weird and eclectic crews going, but I was always liked filming with Jamie. He had all these lights and shit. Just more professional that anyone I’d worked with before. 

Jamie was also working with Sonny Miller around that time, working on these surf movies called The Search. I’d surfed for years so I was always psyched to check out that stuff once we got back to Jamie’s house. I remember them working in shifts inside their little editing bay. It looked super tedious but they were amazing at it. And not only could I watch all the skate stuff, I’d also be checking out unreleased Tom Curren surf footage, too. Just hanging out, smoking a ton of weed and listening to music. That’s actually how I found out about Tool, which I ended up using for that part. 

It's fucked up to say, but that was probably the most high I’d ever really been in my life. I’m not condoning it, but with how that part came out, there was no stress at all. And the amount of footage I got was crazy. I’m sure there’s still a ton of footage over there that never got used. I must’ve had an hour’s worth of footage, which sounds absurd but that’s just how it was. 

That was probably four or five months of filming, which was a little longer but cool because I got to watch my part come together as we went. I could build it as we went. It was the first time that I ever put serious thought into a part. 

And we just kept filming, man. I filmed those parts back-to-back and then went right into the Color video. For the first 10 years of my career, all I did was film.

Which part do you like better?

I don’t know, man. The Union video was cool but it wasn’t as technical as my 101 part. That and 101 just seemed more raw. More do-it-yourself and punk rock. The Union Video had more thought put into it, with an actual budget. 101 was more like, “Fuck it, go film.”

Were you the first to ollie the big Carlsbad Gap? 

Maybe. I don’t really know for sure. I know I was the first person to do tricks down it, but there were a few dudes around that area who were super gnarly. This kid Tim Tino might’ve been the first. He’d jump down anything.

I can’t say for certain. I’ve never heard anybody else come up as being first, but I can’t claim it.

How long did it take you to get that kickflip down it? 

That was one afternoon. There was a contest at the YMCA in Encinitas and everybody was there. All of a sudden, we’re like, “Hey, let’s go to Carlsbad High. Fuck it.” 

I don’t know how many tries it took me to actually make it. I remember Dyrdek did that switch ollie down it first, which was amazing. He thought that was going to get the cover. I also remember trying to frontside half-cab down it that day and got blasted. I tried to 360 flip it that day, too, but ended up doing an airwalk while my board went floating off into the sky. I gave it a wing. 

Kickflip worked, though. Rob was pissed. (laughs)

What about the Foundation ad with you ollieing the double-set while still on 101? Or were you?

You know, I’m still a little fuzzy on that. There were rumblings that I wasn’t happy on 101, because I was wanting to give more input into the company. I was trying to find myself in the creative sense and get more involved with graphics, but Natas was the artist. I still don’t call myself an artist; I’m a skateboarder who draws and paints. I just felt the need to give input. I know it’s his company and he made it what it was, I just felt that he could’ve been a little more open with the team… and I’ve heard that he did do that more after I left. I was just a little bummed because the artwork and overall direction of the company didn’t feel like they really knew what they wanted to do. Plus, Natas was doing Fuct and all this other shit. He didn’t seem entirely focused on 101. It felt like it wasn’t going anywhere and I also felt like I was being held back with my art. 

So, I ended up hanging out at Foundation for a little bit and talked to Tod. I think that maybe from our conversation, Tod thought I was about to quit. And I was psyched on Foundation and what they were wanting to do. I considered it, but I think it was more of a miscommunication between Tod and I. 

They had this “Happy Penis” board coming out. which they ended up throwing my name on and putting it out with that ad. All of this was done in a week! It was instantaneous, but he’d jumped the gun. I remember getting a call from Transworld to come check out this ad, and I’m like, “Uhh… I didn’t quit 101.” 

In the meantime, I’d been talking to Natas and we’d worked some stuff out. I was psyched again. But then that happened and I had to explain everything to him… then Rocco called. Tod and Rocco had always been friends, but I don’t know what was going on between them at the time. I remember Rocco talking about how he was going to teach him a little lesson. It did start a little thing between those two guys for a second. Nothing long-term, though. 

Didn’t you get in a fight with Danny Way around this time as well? 

Yeah, that was fucking stupid. (laughs)

Out of respect for Danny, I don’t really want to talk about that one. We were just stupid kids and it’s all water under the bridge now.

Your first venture into a solo company, how did Color come about? Did you ever bring up starting Color through Rocco prior to leaving the World camp? And were you afraid of a Rocco revenge attack?

Everyone knows how Rocco is. You either love him or hate him, but you have to respect the dude for all he’s done. He actually put me on Venture at a demo in Atlanta during the Hell Tour back in the day, so I’d met him before he blew up in the World days. He and I always had a special relationship. He’d always call my little tantrums the “24-Hour Markovich Period”, which usually came from me being a piece of shit, getting hammered, and calling all my sponsors to quit. He was one of the first ones to really get how I was. “Oh, he’s just being Markovich. He’ll call back tomorrow and sort it out.”

He knew not to take too much of that stuff seriously. I mean, I probably quit Rocco’s companies 20 times over the years. I’ll admit that I’m not the easiest person to work with, but he got it and he’d never fuck with me. 

At the time, I was butting heads with Natas creatively while already doing the Union Wheels thing with Metiver. Oblow was in heavy with Union, too, and I was good friends with him, filming all the time. We just started kicking around ideas and ended up driving to Santa Cruz to talk with Metiver. We got weird with him for a few days and Color came out of it.

I talked to Rocco about everything and he told me that I had to do what I had to do. I wasn’t being disrespectful to him or Natas at all. I just wanted to be more creative and find my own way. He was fine with it. That’s why when we decided to do Prime, it wasn’t a big thing to go back to World. 

You couldn’t have just done Color through World?

At the time, I felt it would’ve been weird to leave 101 to start another company there. It seems more accepted now, but it felt weird back then.

Talk about your backside 180 down that enormous Frankie Hill gap in the Color Video. 

We had gone to the Powell Park and met up with Adam McNatt, back when he still rode for them. We skated the park for a while and then I brought up wanting to check out that school, so we went up there. We get to the Frankie Hill gap and I’m looking at it. It’s really fucking big. 

So, I try to ollie it first. And you have to remember, I was probably riding 45mm wheels at the time. Just the tiniest wheels. I go to ollie it and just got served… and I’m only trying to ollie it. I keep either falling forward or zooming out. Overcorrecting and then undercorrecting. Landing bolts every time, just not riding away. 

I finally land it after 10 or 12 tries. I’m just like, “Fuck it. I’m gonna try a backside 180.”

I give it a go and end up kicking it away. It’s funny because I remember Adam Mcnatt saying to me after the second attempt, “Hey, if you just land with your feed on the board and ride away, you won’t have to do it again.”

Something about the way he said that to me, I just remember looking at him and thinking, “That’s the weirdest thing anybody has ever said to me.”

We were smoking a lot of weed at the time, and as I’m walking up the gap, I’m starting to think that maybe Adam should lay off that shit for a while, although it did make sense. And that’s what I was thinking about as I rolled up… and I made it! Maybe Adam isn’t so burnt after all. 

Third try on the backside 180 after getting murdered on those ollie attempts. And that thing is not fucking little, even by today’s standards. I actually went back to kickflip it a few years later but there was a fence there. I’d still like to try that if it ever opens up. 

Was there more pressure for you with the Color Video as it was your company? How long did you film and were you stoked on the results? And why a Smiths cover versus the original version?

Well, to get this out there because I probably get asked this more than any other question: It’s “Bigmouth Strikes Again” by the Tree People. I still get that fucking question all the time. But it’s no secret that I’m not an emo dude. I realize that people live and die by the Smiths, and they do have a few songs that I like, but I am, in no way, a fucking Morrissey or Smiths fan. So, I didn’t have that loyalty to not use a cover. Plus, that Tree People cover fits the skating better. It’s a little heavier, a little harder…

But I was super psyched on how that video came out. As far as any pressure goes, there really wasn’t any because it was all our deal. I’ve never looked at any of these companies as “mine”. It was always something we did together. That’s actually one of the main reasons we left Metiver to do Prime, because it was never my choice to leave. Color was never just me, it was also Metiver and Oblow’s equally. Oblow was the one doing the daily work with Metiver, I was just skating and doing some of the art. I just happened to be the main dude on the team. It was a new company so they were using my name as the lead guy… which meant I got to be a part-owner, too, but that didn’t really mean shit. 

The problem was after we started doing Color, there were a few things that seemed kinda fucked up with Metiver. I mean, I understand having to cut corners financially wherever you can, but it was starting to be done in all types of shit that he wasn’t telling us about. Oblow had to deal with all that. That and I don’t think Metiver treated Oblow the way he should’ve or the way he did when I was around. Oblow was quickly over it and that’s where the rift started. I had no problem with Metiver but Oblow was my best friend, so I backed him. 

We tried taking Color back to World but Metiver owned the name, so that’s where Prime came in. 

How do you respond to Clyde Singleton’s calling Prime the “whitest team in the history of skateboarding?”

(laughs) I think he’s spot-on. I fucking love Clyde. He actually stayed at my house for a few months at that time. He’s the best. 

I have to imagine your Fight Fire with Fire part being among your personal favorite parts, right? 

I don’t know, man. I put a lot into Art Bars, but the Prime video was probably my best as far as actual tricks went. It was probably the most technical for me. I like my different parts for different reasons, but that Prime video was a lot of fun. 

That 360 kickflip ender is just crazy. 

Oh yeah, that bump was super fun. I was with Al Boglio that day, just messing around. We just happened to film a good one. 

But yeah, different things stand out in different parts for various reasons. 

Prime had a good run but seemed to end kinda suddenly. What happened there? And was it difficult riding for Element after doing your own thing for so long?

It came to an end for me after my dad passed away. My dad died and I bugged out. I even quit skating for a few months, because I just didn’t know what to do. I was lost and don’t even really remember that time. It was really hard. What brought me back was realizing how bummed my dad would’ve been for me to have gotten this far just to quit. 

So, I started skating again and through Duffs, I started talking to Dave Duren. He was riding for Element at the time. I knew Johnny and Andy Howell already. They were friends with my family and knew what was going on. 

I had a Transworld part that I was working on, too, and I ended up filming a ton of shit for that. I’m riding Element boards there, but for half of that project, I wasn’t even on the team yet. That part was kinda like my sponsor-me tape. I probably could’ve gotten on Element just by name back then, but I wanted to show everyone that I was still skating. Because at that time, if you weren’t in any of the magazines for a couple months, it was like you totally fell off the radar. There were so many flashes in the pan back then, I wanted to prove myself again. So, I filmed and got on. Transworld ran this photo of me ollieing a fence on a yellow board, that was my first Element trip where I was actually on the team. 

Your Third Eye View part is insane. 

That’s the one with Led Zeppelin, right?  Yeah, I was on a good one at that time. Not as a “fuck you” to anybody, I was just into my skating again. I felt like I’d already proven what I had to do by that point and was just feeling good again, coming out of the darkness of my dad dying. I just felt like going off. 

I know when Jake Duncombe filmed his Blind part a few years ago, his mom had just passed. I hate to bring this up, but I know he used that as a motivator. Caine Gayle did the same thing in the Color Video. His mom had just passed, too. It stands out to me, because to this day, he did one of the gnarliest things on a skateboard that he definitely doesn’t get credit for… that four-kink rail that he boardslid at night in Del Mar? That rail actually turns. It goes down-flat-down and the down part turns before flat-down-flat. I was there that night and it was crazy. He did it at night with no lights, just the camera. We were sitting there, watching him talk to his mom. It was gnarly. He goes, “I don’t care, Mom. I’m going to do this and if I don’t make it, I’m coming to see you!”

Then he just handled it. 

I feel like I was also using that same kind of energy with the Element video… although I’ve always felt like those Element videos were a bit Frankensteined together. 

How do you look back on all your different solo ventures? Do you see each of them as different entities or just one large timeline with different backers? Are there ones you like more than others? 

To be honest, the one common thing they all have in common, regardless of art direction or team, is that everybody was friends. I never put anybody on that didn’t already know everybody. There were a few occasions where I didn’t get the entire team’s say before putting someone on, but for the most part, I tried to piece all of our friends together on something. It was never about trying to fill the team with only the absolute sickest dudes. 

There are definitely ones that feel closer to what I was going for. Hollywood was a personal favorite of mine, but also Crimson is close to my heart as well. Crimson was when I really started showing off my art within the context of my skate career. But each company has special qualities to me. 

Hollywood had a much different look than Color and Prime… was that a result of trying something different? Or is that just where you were at the time?

It’s more about my input and contributions to the brand. Earlier with Color and Prime, I was more of the yes-or-no guy with graphics. Choosing whichever ones I liked or didn’t like. That was as far as my hand went into the look of those companies. 

Hollywood was the first company I ever took an active role in the direction of. I worked with Milo at Tum Yeto, who’s still one of the best art directors I’ve ever worked with. Somehow, we just clicked. I could give her an idea and she’d nail it every time. That was the first time I was ever “Creative Director” and she made it so easy. She is really what made my ideas come to life. 

Everyone thinks Hollywood was my company but it wasn’t. When we started it, I was riding for Foundation but Strubing and I stuck out like sore thumbs because we didn’t look like we were in the Ramones. I mean, I love all those dudes, but that’s just the way it looked. We were oddballs. 

I wanted to do something different but didn’t want to leave Tum Yeto. After all, I’d only been riding for them for six months by that point. This was right after Jamie had taken Zero and split, so Tod was a little gun shy about starting another brand, but we worked something out. But Hollywood was 100% Tod’s company. I was only paid as a rider and creative director. I had no ownership at all. 

So, when I quit Hollywood, it wasn’t me quitting my own company. I want to clarify that, because I’d like to still be doing Hollywood to this day. I’m not really clear on how this happened, but it came out of a salesperson’s mouth that she’d been told not to push Hollywood. Because Hollywood was growing super fast. 

What I think happened, and I could be totally wrong, but I think it had to do with Foundation being Swank’s baby. That’s his company and that’s what he started Tum Yeto with. It was huge, but then he brought in Toy Machine and Zero, which both ended up overshadowing Foundation. It had to limp along for a while. Zero blew up and left. But then I came along and we did Art Bars, Foundation started getting its wings again. I leave to do Hollywood and that starts blowing up. I didn’t feel like we were stealing Foundation’s thunder, but maybe he did and got scared? That’s kinda how I felt it was going. That may be a selfish reason for me but I knew what Hollywood was doing. I saw our numbers. I know it was fucking killing it. 

One day, I go to pick up my paycheck, and for some reason, it’s only half of what it should be. No explanation. And all of a sudden, nobody would answer my emails, either. I think Tod was trying to piss me off so I’d quit, because I was trying to reach him to figure out what’s going on. I finally get a meeting with him and find out all this shit. That they’re cutting my creative director title and want to kick Nuge and Belton off the team. They want to cut all these people’s pay… I didn’t want to do that, but they were so adamant about it. I told them to cut my pay instead. Take my money and spread it to the team, I quit. 

That’s why I left Hollywood. I didn’t want to kick my friends off the team. It was so terrible having to leave, but I didn’t quit my own company. I never owned Hollywood, I got fucked out of it.  

Crimson and Given had relatively similar looks, what were the differences between those two brands?

This is something I really wanted to talk about, actually. I hope this clears up why I actually did leave my own company. I know its hard to be taken seriously after doing that, especially when you go on to do something that may look like the same thing, but it’s not that simple. 

So, I was riding for Blind at the time. And my whole reason for leaving Blind had to do with things I was promised upon returning to the World camp. Because it was awesome for a while, and we were able to do a ton. We did that video and everything. But the whole reason I got on Blind was that we were supposed to do a split with the kiddie Reaper stuff going to one area, and Blind returning to the more art-focused stuff like when Mark was doing it. That never happened. 

After that video, they immediately wanted to start doing another video, but we just wanted to chill for a bit. I mean, we’d just filmed a full-length video! But they weren’t having it. They were actually talking about getting rid of certain people who’d just put their hearts and souls into their videos part. That put a bad taste in my mouth, man. I just thought that was so lame. And then things got weird. 

The big thing for me was the art. I just wanted to use the Reaper a few times for certain key graphics. Other than that, I didn’t want it. Because I’m a grown-ass man, I don’t want this reaper on all my graphics. But that was the main issue. Art was a big reason as to why I left Element, why wouldn’t it be a reason to leave Blind? So we parted ways and I didn’t ride for anybody for a few months. I was talking to Salman about riding for Black Label. There were a few others options out there, too, but nothing set in stone. I was still riding for Hurley then, which was paying the bills, so I could float around for a while. 

Unfortunately, I ended up going to an expo in Orlando on a Hurley trip and blew out my ACL on a mini ramp. It was bad and I knew I was gonna be out for a good six-to-eight months. And at the time, I was already in the process of starting a wheel company with Charlie Thomas, but I was now totally laid up after blowing out my knee. I couldn’t even get off the couch. So, for the first month or two, all I did was rehab. But then, I started going down to my studio and painting. I still couldn’t skate but I had all this energy, so I just sat in my downstairs studio, drinking bottles of wine and painting. That’s all I did for four months, and the amount of artwork I turned out was insane. 

I knew that nobody was going to put me on their team while I was hurt, and since we’re starting this wheel company, we started thinking about doing a board company, too. I reached out to a few people and got working on Crimson. I found a partner, who I won’t name because I don’t him getting any type of credit, and we all contributed a certain amount of money. But the one thing we were lacking was an artist… and contracting artwork was the one thing we didn’t really factor into the budget. It was more important to get everything going, so we put all that money elsewhere. And because of that, it was basically decided at a meeting that I would be doing the art. Everyone just looked at me and told me I was doing it. They’d been down to my studio and seen all the stuff I was doing. Why don’t I spend the next three months doing art geared towards Crimson? 

Makes sense. 

Once we finally launch everything, Crimson just takes off, man. We had a really great first year. Arthouse Distribution is set up and I’m recovering from my knee surgery. Things were going well.

The downfall came after my wife and I decided to move back to Atlanta for a while. I thought we had a business plan and everything was going well, but it turned out that after I left, this fuckwit partner started embezzling money. I guess he was envisioning his own little empire with Arthouse Distribution. He had become so greedy and money hungry, but I didn’t know because I wasn’t there. I started to hear that he wasn’t paying bills and doing this and that. Because I only dealt with the art side of it, I had nothing to do with the numbers and daily business. I chose the product and the vendors, but I didn’t deal with them directly. I had no idea about the shady shit he was pulling until I found out from a third party. 

They weren’t the only ones getting ripped off, either. I wasn’t getting any royalties because they were supposed to be going back into the company. I should’ve been getting royalties with what we were selling, but I didn’t have an accurate view of those numbers at the time. So I never got a dime of that while he’s out buying big-screen TV’s and a new truck. I figure I missed out on about $80,000 in royalties... Because I wasn’t even getting a paycheck back then, only product. 

Red flags started popping up and it immediately became apparent that I want nothing to do with this dude, so my wife and I got a lawyer. We ended up battling in court for six months just so I could leave. And I was going to let him keep Arthouse Distribution, which was still distributing Heroin, Teenage Runaway and Destructo. All I wanted was the Crimson name and the team, but he couldn’t let it go. He was just so greedy. He was gonna let me out of my contract, but I had to sign a contract where Crimson would be exclusively through Arthouse for three more years. That was one of his big demands. 

Why would you do that? He’s the entire reason you’re leaving!

Exactly. So we fought and fought. It was one of the most stressful times of my life… and probably what ended up ruining my marriage. All of the stress from this bullshit. And basically, by the end of it, everything was so fucked up with Crimson that we just had to wash our hands of it and walk away. 

Just like that?

Yeah, but this is where it gets good, because I made sure to talk to the team first. I explained everything to them that had gone done and they had my back. Fuck that guy. We are the reason why Crimson was successful, not him. So, we start orchestrating a plan that if they receive a specific text from me, that was the signal. Something was about to go down.

I call my former partner and tell him that I’m now willing to settle for only the money we invested in. That was it. He can keep the rest. Crimson, the distribution, everything. Write up the contracts, I’m done. I’m gonna retire from skating professionally. I’m out. Good fucking riddance. You can have it. 

Man, this dude’s entire tone changed. All of a sudden, he was the happiest man in the world… like a pig in shit. All his dreams have come true. For $30 grand, the embezzlement goes away and he gets it all. And he knew this was his golden opportunity, so he had those contracts written up in a heartbeat. They even flew me out there to sign everything. 

When I go out there, I honestly just wanted to beat this dude’s ass. I was so pissed over him ruining everything, but I knew I had to play this thing whole way through. Alright, I’m just gonna walk in, sign the papers, take the checks and go deposit them. And that’s what I did. It was a five-minute exchange. I remember walking into that warehouse and he’s standing there. Charlie Thomas and all of my friends are there, too, because it had been my company up to that point. They’re all just watching it go down. Nobody’s saying anything. 

“Are these the contracts?”

“Yeah.” 

“Where do I sign?”

“Here, here and here.”

I sign the contracts. 

“Where’s my money?”

He points at the table and there are two certified checks for $15 grand each. I grab them and walk out. 

“Charlie, can you drive me to the bank?”

The drive to the bank was maybe 10 minutes and the whole time, I’m texting the team. I text everybody. 

We arrive at the bank and right as I’m getting out of the car, Charlie’s phone starts blowing up… because he’s technically still Team Manager for Crimson. His phone is going off as I shut the door. I walk into the bank and deposit both checks into my account. The entire $30 grand. I walk back to the car and as I’m walking, I take off my sweatshirt to reveal one of the first Given shirts underneath. Charlie is just looking at me from the car with the biggest shit-eating grin. 

“Everybody on Crimson just texted me to quit.”

I just remember him sitting there. Shaking his head and laughing. 

He told me later that when he walked back into the warehouse after dropping me off, everybody had the same half-laughing shellshocked look on their faces. Here my former partner had experienced the happiest 20 minutes of his life, where he thought he got one over on me, and now he was fucked. The entire team had quit. 

(laughs) Jesus.

He tried to keep it going for a little bit, but there wasn’t much he could do. It was over. 

That’s straight out of a Scorsese film. 

(laughs) We basically tried to do Given the same way as Crimson. Not really changing much because I wasn’t about ready to let this dude take what were my ideas and direction. Fuck him. It’s still my artwork. The problem was that it was just myself, my wife, and a few other people working on it. Things just got to be too difficult. The company was doing well but we were spread too thin and I just had to shut it off. She kinda felt the same way. Because if my heart wasn’t into it, why should her’s be?

We tried to get some help with distribution and ended up going through Switchboard… which was the dumbest thing I’ve ever done. I didn’t have a problem with them personally, it just felt sub-par. I wasn’t proud of what I was doing and was worried that Given had turned into some type of budget company. I just had to step away. 

What’s the concept behind the face you paint? What does it mean to you? 

It’s all of my thoughts and feelings. The easiest way I can sum it up is that I can draw it 20 times and never get the exact same thing. How it looks depends on my mood. It has to do with the rhythm of it. That’s the easiest way I can put it. 

And yeah, I get comments about doing the faces too much, but I’m not doing this for them. Most of the time, people saying that doesn’t bother me, but sometimes I can get a little defensive about it.  

The Water Gap seemed almost unfathomable back in ‘92, and now there’s switch tres going over it. What are your thoughts on today’s death-defying stair counts and hammertime? 

I have an opinion on that, but I’m kind of afraid to put it out there. Not that I’m gonna talk shit, my thoughts have more to do with a fear of something bad happening. I don’t want to say that and put it out there, but skating is just so gnarly now. It does feels like something bad is going to happen. In saying that, I think skating is totally amazing and I don’t want it to stop, like Jaws and those dudes. I get so psyched whenever I see stuff. And I trip on the size and the consistency. You kinda have to. When you’re at that level, your margin for error is basically zero, and I probably respect that more than 99% of the people out there because I know the fear. Maybe not on the level where they are, but I know how it is to step up. I had that same feeling, it’s just on a different scale now. Where I ollied something before that people thought was so huge, people are now doing crazy tricks down that same gap, but I still had to overcome that same fear back then… just like how they do now. 

Did you ever think it would get to this point? 

Oh yeah, I knew it would only get bigger and bigger. Just like whenever you think skateboarding has reached a point where it can’t get any more technical, it always does. Skateboarding will always continue to evolve.

Do you feel like you’ve had some hand in all this?

I don’t know. I just skated and did what I did because that’s all I knew. You just have to want to do it and practice. That’s all it is. If you try something enough, you’re going to do it. I just hate battling. I hate going to war with tricks, not that I’ve ever been the most consistent skateboarder anyway. That’s why I push five times more than everybody else. I have to overcompensate because I’m not as consistent or technical. In my head, I’d rather try something super gnarly, super fast… and if I make it, awesome. If I don’t, I’ll get a helluva slam out of it and that’s almost worth it, too. That has always my mentality over the years. It still is at age 41. 

I might’ve opened up people’s perceptions on what is actually doable on skateboard, but I don’t really know. Maybe I was a catalyst there… I’d like to think so.

Big thanks to Kris for taking the time.