chrome ball interview #85: thomas campbell

chops and t-moss get weird in the garage

studio shot, 2014 - photo: tiffany campbell

Alright Thomas, I gotta admit that I’ve had some difficulty wrapping my head around all of the different roles and projects you’ve worked on over the years. One thing I’ve always wondered about, and this is kind of an easy one to start off with: what is your typical day like? How do you go about doing all this stuff? 

I just get up and try to get things going. I normally do most of my work in the first part of the day, whether it’s things like emails, painting or design stuff… whatever I gotta do. I’ll try to do that stuff in the morning and then go run some errands towards the afternoon. I live in the woods near Santa Cruz so I typically have to go into town for things. After that, I usually go surfing or skating sometimes 

I try to take it how it comes. I’m always making art but if I have a big art show coming, I’ll go more into that type of mode when needed. Making a bigger solo exhibition usually take about 6 months or so to prepare. Or if I’m in moviemaking mode, I’ll focus on that area and probably not paint as much. Maybe some doodles here and there but nothing real serious.

I like it, though. I like working on different things because it helps keep everything fresher.

And you work out of your garage, right?

Yeah, my garage has been converted into a studio. Cars do not live in there. But it’s good to have a place like that right there. 

preparing for show at alleged gallery -brooklyn, 2000
photo: templeton

So many of your projects are holistic in approach, with you basically taking care of everything from top to bottom. You direct the film, you design the packaging, you distribute the project. Would you say this comes from your making zines back in the day? 

Yeah, I think it definitely started for me in zines and continued throughout working at skateboard magazines for so long. It’s really influenced me to have an editor’s mind. You can start seeing all the options for things, kinda like you’re cooking a lot of meals at once. I need a little more salt over there, this isn’t quite done over here… 

I’m comfortable with a lot of things going on at once. It’s all sort of a balancing act. What are my main points? I have this stuff already, what other supporting things do I need? That’s basically how you make a magazine or the kind of movies I make. They’re both really similar in that way.

T Campbell with Nikon FM2 - Wallenberg, 1994
photo: Yelland

How did you get introduced to the seedy underbelly of underground skate zines? 

I’d say what happened first was that my friend in high school, Ky made a zine called “Kinky Transitions”.  That was my real introduction, I guess. 

That’s an amazing title. 

Yeah, I still didn’t really know anything about zines at that point but I started working on one anyway with my friend Tony Vadakan after that. It was called “Ground Beef” and I drew the cartoon in it… which is so bad. I didn’t know how to draw at all and it’s really horrible. The cartoon was called “Beef Chew” and I’m embarrassed of it. 

(Laughs)

But this was around the time when my friends and I started going to skate Del Mar Skatepark and really looking at skate magazines. That’s where I got to know about Swank and Blender. Those are the two big guys for me as far as inspiring me to be creative.  

I can’t remember the exact occurrence but I started making my own zine shortly after that. I just wanted my zine to look a certain way… but at the same time, I didn’t want my friend Tony to get mad that I was starting my own zine so I called it “Joke”, trying to downplay it. 

I got really into it, though. I took an offset printing class in high school and started making my zines in class. I started getting ads from Santa Cruz and Dogtown… my zine actually had a lot of ads in it. I got all kinds of free boards for that.  

That’s a pretty good racket. 

Yeah, it really was. 

But I was also starting to develop relationships through making my zine. Grant Brittain was sending me photos to use and I was also trading zines and stuff back and forth with Tod Swank. I remember when Tod put my drawing on the cover of one of his zines, this one he did after Swank zine called “Scrap”, it was seriously one of the best days of my life. I was so stoked. My idol likes my drawing! It was a crappy drawing of Anne Frank but he liked it. That meant so much to me.

It’s difficult to explain to the younger generation how all of these zines circulated around the country with so much distance between like-minded individuals. It’s taken for granted now with the internet but it really was like an underground network back then. 

To be honest, a lot of it grew out of Thrasher. They had this thing in the magazine called “The Zine Page” with different zines and addresses. You could send a dollar or something and get zines straight from that.  That’s what connected a lot of us in the beginning. 

Magazines, in a way, didn’t cover all that much back then. You wanted to share what was going on in your scene.

But that’s what brought so many of us together, relationships I still have.  Like, I remember when I started trading zines with Chris Johanson in the mail back when I was 16. I’d get his stuff and be like, “Man, this guy’s fucked up!”

I didn’t get the humor. It was really dark and tweaked. I’d get his zines and feel like he was on some other shit that I didn’t even know about. 

But it’s funny because I ended up meeting Chris for the first time totally random on a bus in San Francisco 6 years later. Just because I was wearing a Swank shirt. It was something that Tod had made and given me so I guess it was pretty limited. But this guy on the bus looks at it and says, “Do you know Tod?”

“Yeah… woah! It’s you!”

So many zine guys soon found themselves with jobs at major skateboarding mags, yourself included. I know you did some stuff with PowerEdge and Club Homeboy but how did you get involved with Transworld specifically and what was it like working there during this pretty wild period? I know you weren’t even taking photos at first, only writing? 

My friend Joe Lloyd used to take pictures under the name Xeno. We had a ditch by our house called “the Shit Ditch” and it got bulldozed. Somehow I ended up getting to write an obituary for it in Transworld along with some of Joe's pictures. I couldn’t even really write but I tried anyway. 

After that, I think I might’ve made another zine, but I really started focusing more on writing for magazines. I figured this was my opportunity to really work towards something. So I basically just wrote for 5 years… like you said, mainly Transworld but there were some other mags, too, including Big Brother. I was taking some pictures back then but mostly portraits. I didn’t really want to take pictures back then, I just wanted to skate. Taking pictures meant being responsible for camera stuff and not being able to really skate during sessions because you were too busy. 

But I was also insanely poor. Permanent couch tour poor. You really don’t make anything being just a writer at a magazine so I was running on empty all the time. That’s basically why I decided to start shooting skate photos. 

The big switch came during this one time when I was in Spain. This guy in Madrid was trying to start a skateboarding magazine and I was helping him organize photographers while I wrote for him. I remember he had all this camera equipment and wanted me to take photos as well but I didn’t really know how to use any of the stuff. I didn’t know how to use flashes back then. 

I started thinking of who I could call to help me out. My favorite skateboard photographer at the time was Spike. I loved the way he shot photos and used color gels. There’s always a lot of movement in his photography. I’d known him for a long time, I think I’m gonna call him up and ask him how to use all this stuff. 

“Hey Spike, how do I do this? What do I do?” (laughs)

He gave me the whole rundown! Set the flash in front usually at 5.6 and the one behind the skater a little hotter… this is back when you put the flash in the photo, which definitely does not happen now. But yeah, he told me everything I needed to know and I wrote it all down. I went out that day and shot more-or-less totally professional pictures. 

One thing I love about skate mags in the late-80s was the sense of exploration and personality. Take monthly columns like Room Without A View and Street Sheet, for example. You’d never have that today. Like that photo you took of Chris Reed in his pajamas blowing bubbles. That’s a two-page spread!

(laughs) No, that would never go today. But that was such an interesting, unique time. It wasn’t so serious. Now everything is so hammertime-oriented. Things could be more in the creative realm back then. Obviously there was some super good skating, too, but mags were more about showing a spectrum of what was happening.  

What is going on in that Chris Reed photo anyway?

Honestly, I don’t really know. We’d been really good friends since high school, it just basically good friends out making weird stuff one day. I sent it to Transworld and the next thing we knew, it was a two-page spread… which is both awesome and fucked-up. That might’ve been when GSD was designing the mag. 

I know you worked on a lot of Pro Spotlights back then but one thing I remember capturing my imagination were your travel articles. You led quite a nomadic existence for several years that you were then able to incorporate back into your writing and really make something special. Taking a bunch of dudes to parts unknown for skating is a standard concept now but it was rarely seen when you were doing that in the 1990s. 

It’s interesting because when I’d travel to Europe every year for those contests, I’d always go off on tours and stay with people afterwards. One time in particular, I stayed at Skin’s house before heading down to Spain and checking out their skateparks, eventually working my way down to Morocco. Surfing and skating for a while. 

I was basically on a 5-year bender of going all over the place on a shoestring. It was the best.  I was working for Transworld and eventually Skateboarder, I wanted to go to different places than what was not normally where people would go to skate. I’d already been to a few of these places and knew that there were spots. You could get a different look and bring a different culture to people, too. Cool, let’s go to Morocco. 

Some people had beef with those articles because they felt those countries didn’t support skateboarding. Whatever. Who cares. We’re on the Earth. Go skate whatever you want. There are no rules. 

adrian lopez in hong kong, 1998

You were on that amazing 1992 UK tour with a post-Blind Mark Gonzales, a SOTY-bound John Cardiel, and a prime Salman Agah…  in addition to Karma, Alan Petersen and Ron Chatman. Such a solid crew and an amazing snapshot in time. What was up with Gonz during this time? And was it obvious that a young Cards was on his way to greatness at that point? 

Yeah, that was a really good tour.

I’d met Skin Phillips at Tobin’s house in San Francisco. He was this cool guy from Wales trying to be a photographer. I think he was working for Thrasher a little bit at the time but not too much. I remember telling him that I was trying to go to Europe that summer when he invited me on this tour with them. He was the van driver and the photographer for the whole thing. 

I don’t really know what Mark was doing at that time. He might’ve been thinking he was retired at that point. He wasn’t skating a whole lot… I don’t even know if he had his own skateboard on the tour. He’d borrow somebody else’s and shred here and there, not much though. I think at the time he was riding for 60/40 maybe.

One thing that stands out on that trip is when he hippie jumped over the bars into South Bank. To this day, I don’t know of anybody else who could possibly do that. That’s some serious ninja shit. 

Cardiel was a ball of energy at all times. I remember him in the van eating candy, drinking Coke and smoking hash. He was non-stop super-amped and as soon as the van door opened, he’d go completely nuts. The tour basically went around to all the old skateparks in England and Scotland. Everyplace we went, John would find the gnarliest thing possible and do it. I think he was maybe 19 at the time. John’s got an awesome energy.

mark in england, 1992

On another excursion, you basically discovered an unknown Chad Muska on a TWS trip to Vegas. Every town has their rippers, what was it that made him stick out like he did?

Yeah, that was with Tim Brauch, Jesse Paez, Chris Pontius, Fernando Elvira, Floyd Williamson and Tobin Yelland. 

It’s funny because I remember going to pick up Jesse Paez at his house. He was only 16 at the time and as we’re leaving to get in the car, I hear his mom say, “Please take care of Jesse!”

“For sure! No problem!”

We then get in the car and immediately eat mushrooms. That’s like the worst thing ever: driving to Las Vegas at night while super high on mushrooms. That’s not what you want to do. Fear and Loathing is exactly that and the reality of it is not good. (laughs)

But yeah, we went to this spot and Chad just happened to be there. He was so good… like really, really good. We were all blown away by him. He was a little gangstery, hip hop-style dude wearing Adidas with double-tongues. We all thought he was awesome.

We hooked up with him the next day for more pictures and I remember going to this rail. I’d seen people skate small rails before but never anything like this. This was a 12-stair rail and he’s just attacking it, doing lipslides down it. He broke his board after two tries. I let him borrow my board and he broke it. Tobin lets him borrow his board and Chad breaks that one, too. We couldn’t get over it. He was an animal. 

When we all headed back to California at the end of the trip, I tried to get him sponsored by several companies but for whatever reason, it didn’t work out. I’ll leave the companies nameless but they’re obviously retarded.

“Hey, I have this guy and he’s basically better than your entire team put together. You should put him on.”

A few year later, he’s the biggest skateboarder in the world. But Chad’s rad, man. He’s got a good vibe and his skating is amazing, especially at the height of his powers. It was like magic. 

muska's hate

I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask for your side of the Ethan Fowler/Iowa-to-SF story. I know you were the connection there. You talked about some guilt with the mushrooms-thing earlier, was there any with you essentially helping him run away?

No, I didn’t feel guilty.

I’d originally met Ethan through Ed around 1994. I think he was 15 at the time. 

Yeah, you took that frontside grab photo of him at Miley. 

Yup. He was riding for Ed (Toy Machine) at the time and he was amazing. He just looked super good on a skateboard. Like, he’s one of those people who can just roll straight and you’re like, “Oh my God!”

But all of a sudden, his Mom wanted to move him to Iowa. It really sucked. I even called his Mom, trying to make her realize just how good Ethan was. Basically equating him to an Olympic-level athlete, asking if he could still live in California with his brother or possibly even Ed? But she wasn’t having it. 

So he goes out to Iowa and is just partying and doing drugs. It’s kinda whatever for him, he’s obviously the best skateboarder in Iowa City but nobody is inspiring him. He’s not really skating all that much. 

Around this time, I had my first art show at Alleged Gallery in NYC. Tobin had driven out to the show with Julien Stranger, Rick Ibaseta and our friend Kiawa. Rick and Julien decided to fly back to San Francisco so I ended up driving back across the country with Tobin and Kiawa.

We were making stops along the way and I brought up stopping by to see Ethan in Iowa, thinking we could possibly shoot some photos. It wasn’t anything super planned, we were just there and he was stoked to see us and shoot some pictures, he was ripping. At one point, I was like, “Dude, do you want to come with us? Maybe live in San Francisco or something?”

“Yeah, I want to go.”

Looking back on it, it seems way more hectic than what it really was. But he went back to his house and filled a backpack full of stuff. He didn’t want to make it too obvious. And we went. 

I don’t think he called his Mom for a week afterwards… and I think Ed was pretty bummed that he left for Stereo. But that summer, he went to Munster contest and won pretty much what was the World Championship at the time. He won Munster at 16 after basically taking 9 months off from skating. That’s how good he was. 

ethan in france, 1996

One of my all-time favorites has gotta be your Sean Sheffey TWS cover. Did you shoot a lot with Sheff back then? 

That one was super random. I think that was the same day that I shot that photo of Ethan there as well. I didn’t even know Sheffey at the time. I was shooting pictures of Ed and Ethan and saw him skating that little corner of the bank so I took a couple shots. I didn’t really think too much about it. 

It’s funny because this was back when I’d shoot pictures and literally send all the film directly to Transworld through FedEx. I’d never even see anything, they’d do all the developing and stuff. All of a sudden, they’re like, “Hey, you got a cover with Sheffey!”

“What?!?”

I only shot maybe four pictures of him that day but I guess all the timing was right and it worked out. I saw Sheffey shortly after that on a fairy ride from Holland to England with the whole skateboarding circus.

He was super psyched and thanked me… was rad.

Were you at all bummed on how rigid skateboarding got in the 1990s with all its rules? Why do you think that was? 

To be honest, that was pretty much one of the main reasons I stopped working in skateboarding for a bit. I used to work a lot with Tim Brauch, Ron Whaley and Israel Forbes because I lived in Santa Cruz and I thought those guys were rad because they were the prototypes of skaters that just would skate everything. People like Phil Shao and Dan Drehobl, guys that just wanted to skate and would skate whatever. That’s what I’ve always felt skating is. 

“Oh, a backyard pool? Let’s go skate it! Let’s hit up Derby! Let’s go street skate! Yeah, let’s just go skate!”

But they were the exceptions! I think a lot of that separation came from the Girl camp. They were only into what they were into and everything else was cut. I don’t think that’s too far of the mark. At that point, you had your vert guys, your street guys, your tech street guys and then your gnar dog pool guys. It was all so divided, which seemed really stupid to me. 

What’s interesting is that in the long run, I think the Beauty and the Beast tour did a lot to break down those divisions. All of a sudden, the tech dudes were like, “Oh, the Girl dudes are cool with the Anti Hero dudes.” And the gnar tranny-type skaters probably thought the same. It's fascinating the dudes that helped create the division helped close it.

I think skating is in a really good spot now as far as the overall mentality and how people are approaching all terrains and mixing styles fluidly. Attacking everything and not giving a fuck. People like Evan Smith are the personification of what skating is. Just not caring and doing anything. Wallie up a rail, smith grinding down it, whatever. It’s what I’ve always thought of skating. It’s not so divided anymore. People seem generally stoked on each other. I am not that interested in the televised side of skating but whatever.

blaize blouin, slob fastplant - chicken's pool, 1998

Curious what you think of skate photography these days. I can’t help but feel there’s a formula that’s being beaten to death and it’s all a bit too perfect… where as before, I think there was charm was in the flaws. 

I’m not very into where modern skateboard photography is. 

I feel like skateboarding is such an outlaw activity. It's really raw, dirty and fucked up in the best way. In a lot of ways, I feel the digital era, where everything’s super-processed and perfectly-lit, doesn’t really document the real feeling skateboarding. It’s almost like that stuff takes it out of context. Makes it to pretty and controlled when it's not.

There are some photographers who do it well. Almost everyone is really skilled at getting the shots that are in the magazines. I’m not saying that these photographers aren’t good. I just feel like with photography and videos, it’s all so clean. Skateboarding is not clean. It’s fucked and it’s heavy. The situations are heavy. But maybe I just relate to film-based photography more. I do.

karma, switch crooks - wade speyer's mini - big brother, 1993

Agreed. Going back a bit, how did you get involved with SMA’s Debunker project? 

I was living in Santa Cruz in the early 90's and one of my best friends was Steve Keenan, team manager at SMA.  I can’t remember exactly how it came about but I think he was already making it and asked if I was interested in helping him. 

I’ve always been super into music so I started helping him organize some of the soundtrack. We started coming up with more and more ideas for it. Obviously, we were heavily influenced by Alien Workshop’s Memory Screen, which had just come out and was the best thing ever to me at that time. There’s definitely some Alien aspects of it but I was also going to video stores and trying to find the weirdest videos I could to steal from. Making weird vocal stuff for it with my friend Adam… stuff with alien’s talking. 

What made SMA go the aliens route after all those years with the airplane? It was a pretty big change in direction for them. 

That’s basically what we were all into at the time. Reading books about aliens and wondering what the hell is going on galactically. I mean, obviously, if you don’t think there are aliens, you’re retarded. I mean… come on!

What’s the story behind Dave LeRoux’s disclaimer? Warranted but still a bold choice. 

We felt it needed to be there because we didn’t think people at the time we’re going to understand what he was doing. 

Yeah, he was basically too far ahead of his time. 

I think we had to put that in there. I don’t think people got how crazy he was skating anyway… and then to point out that it was almost all switchstance, we were hoping the disclaimer might get people thinking a little more about what he was doing. 

Why was Julien in the intro when he didn’t have a part? I know he left shortly after but why was he in there at all? 

That was more Keenan’s decision. He was the one getting the footage together and I don’t think Julien had tons of footage. 

harold hunter - brooklyn banks b side flip, 1995

Talk a little about your 1996 short A Love Supreme. How was that made? And how was it received in the notoriously mucho macho NYC scene? Did they get what you were trying to do?

I lived in New York from 1995 to 1998. I was doing some exhibitions at Alleged Gallery at the time and I also fell in love with a woman there so I basically just ended up there. I started shooting a lot with Harold, Huff, Ryan Hickey, Quim and Mike Cardona. 

It’s interesting because before I moved there, while I’d always listened to jazz, I was still mainly into indie rock. But once I moved to New York, I really felt that jazz was the sound of the place and began exploring it a lot deeper than I had before. Obviously Coltrane is one of my all-time favorites and A Love Supreme his best records ever. I wanted to start shooting 16mm, too… maybe I could make a movie with all of this stuff I have going on in my head? Maybe I could do it with the Supreme guys? So I skated over to Supreme and talked to Giovanni Estevez like, “Hey, could I make a movie for you guys?”

He was into it and we figured out a way to get a small budget. The first time I ever shot a 16mm camera was on the day I started filming that movie. I think I shot it over the course of 4 or 5 months. 

I think it captured the vibe of the place and the scene. The feeling of what it’s like to be there. Obviously the music was really good. But it never really got released. I know there was a slightly edited version in 411 but not with the same music. 

To be honest, I don’t think the Supreme guys really got it at the time but I always liked it. I think in the long run, they appreciated it. It’s interesting in that I think there may have been a slight nod to A Love Supreme in Bill’s Cherry. The Supreme dudes called and asked me come to the premiere since I did the first one. They said Bill really wanted me to be there. That was cool. I really dug Bill's Cherry film.

I was actually just thinking about how I need to call them as next year makes 20 years since it came out. Maybe we could do something for that. 

some weird boards

strength mag, henry lindsey benefit, 2x krooked, element, 2x designarium

You’ve done some graphics for a wide range of companies and I know your doing some stuff with Element now. What’s your process like when working with riders and brands versus your own aesthetic? 

It’s different every time but they generally just want you to do what you do. I gotta admit that sometimes it’s really hard for me to do skateboard graphics because that’s when I feel the most self-conscious. It’s not hard for me to make a painting but when it comes to a skateboard graphic, I freak out! 

“Oh my gosh, there’s going to be a lot of these. Everyone’s going to see this! Is it good enough?  I don’t know! Ahhhh!”

Honestly, that’s probably held me back from doing a lot more in the last 10 years. Different companies will ask me a lot, but I haven't done that many recently. The thing is that it’s kind of part of my job right now to work with Element and make graphics so I’m trying not to be such a wuss. 

Because I’m looking at them on my wall right now, how did you come up with that crazy set for Designarium? 

Oh yeah, those were just taken off of some cut-down painted boards that I had already made. I was doing that a lot where I’d take used boards, cut out a tweaked shape and paint on them. I’d actually just finished those when Natas asked if I was interested in making some boards for him… why don’t we just make these? We can make a pintail and a swallowtail. 

I think if you actually tried to ride them, they’d be pretty dangerous but it’s art. I like that. I like taking something like that and making it not functional so people will want to put it on their wall. 

sewing station installation - bolinas museum, 2015

I know you don’t want to reveal too much but can you offer a little explanation behind some of the recurring themes in your art? Like those hooded guys, for example. 

As far as those bottle-shaped people I draw, I’ve mentioned spending a lot of time in Morocco over the last 20 years or so. The men and women there often wear this similar kind of robe called a djellaba. I think I started drawing them from being there and have probably been drawing them since the first time I went.  

I like them because I can draw these scenes with anonymous people in them who aren’t sex-specific. You can look at a piece and make up whatever you want. I like that ambiguous idea. I think it’s interesting and I like that point of reference. That’s probably why I’ve stuck with it and evolved it. 

I’m 46 and I started really trying to be an artist when I was 13. I’ve just been working at it consistently. Style evolves. Ideas evolve. I don’t know… I like to just go out in my studio, listen to music and get weird. It’s fucking fun. 

But there’s the full range of emotional shit going on with making art, especially painting. Everything from serious loathing and burnout to elation and really magic, connected moments. It's quite an emotional journey.

"Ampersand" exhibition - joshua liner gallery - nyc, 2014

When do the cryptic phrasings come into play? Do they arise naturally through the process of making a piece? Is there some type of overall theme or story there?

I think a lot of things that I write in my paintings are more like self-affirmations. It’s like reiterating ideas to myself through the paintings. Something like, “Sing Ding aling” is basically saying to be thankful for what you have or what’s happening. Our lives are short and can end at any time. A lot of it is trying to be present where I am and trying to convey that. It’s not super heavy or highly-conceptual, it’s kind of a natural dialogue. 

Is that the same reasoning behind your ubiquitous “yar”?

Yeah, I think “yar” is a sailing term meaning that everything is good and ready to go. The boat is yar, the sails are yar. It’s an actual term. It doesn’t sound like it should be but it is. I think it’s funny. 

A lot of that stuff is trying to make myself laugh, too. 

working on max fish mural, 1997
photo: dunn

For sure. How did your installations inside the old Max Fish happen? Is that a nod to old Alleged connections?

I’ve done three installations in Max Fish over the years. I lived two storefronts down from there in 1995.

Rent had to be a lot cheaper then. 

Definitely. And it wasn’t a skater bar either. It was far more artists and musicians back then, which I actually liked because I could take a break from my skatelife and go there. 

My days back then were basically painting or shooting skate photos during the day, skating the metal curbs out on Houston a lot from around 11 to 1am and then ending the day at Max Fish until close at 4. That was kind of the routine. 

All the people that worked at Max Fish were my buddies. How Max Fish became a skater bar, my good friend I skated with was Andre Razo. Whenever his underage younger brothers Marc and Tino would come down from Vermont, we would get them into Max Fish and they’d be stoked. It’s funny to see how they evolved and became bartenders as Max Fish became a total skate bar… and now Marc is one of the owners. 

It was a natural thing over the years where they’d ask me if I wanted to paint the walls. The first one I did was probably in 1997 or so. I did another one in 2004 and the last one I did was 3 or 4 years ago. They want me to do another one in the new spot but I haven’t gotten out there to do it yet. 

shooting "ye old destruction" with al parts

What can you tell us about your new project Ye Olde Destruction? 

Yeah, I’ve been working slowly on this all 16-mm skate film over the last few years. It’s a pretty solid cast of skaters: Evan Smith, Colin Provost, Taylor Bingman, Nick Garcia, Suski, Chris Russell, Brent Achtley, Al Parts, Ray Barbee, McCrank… there’s a bunch. So far, Jon Miner’s helped me film a trip and French Fred had helped me film another. 

I don’t want to give away too much but it’s really raw and fun skating. A lot of DIY spots and loosely based around automobiles. It’s not about hammertime, It’s people having fun, skating shit. I’ll leave it at that.

Will it be along the same lines as Cuatro Suenos Pequenos? 

I’m making it so it will have a similar vibe but this one will be much more angsty and in the punk zone. Quatros is a bit more ethereal or dream-state oriented. 

filming Javier Mandizabal for CSP - photo: rip zinger

How did Cuatro Suenos Pequenos come about?

Javi and I were just sitting around the table in my house. I’d wanted him to be in this other idea for a film I was working on but it didn't work out. He was working with Quiksilver at the time and I remember him saying, “Those guys are big fans of your work. They’d probably let us make a movie together if you wanted. “

We started talking about it and seriously, within 15 minutes, we had the idea. 

“Maybe it could be about dreams.”

It kept going from there. I hashed it out a little more and got Quiksilver to give us some budget. We started working on it and were actually almost done when Quiksilver closed down that side of their business. No more skateboarding. But it was cool because they actually paid for the movie and then gave it back to me.

In the beginning, it was going to be a free movie in Europe, released on the internet. It was really made with the European sensibility in mind. Lots of influence from Bertalucci, Fellini and Godard. 

Your use of colors in Quatros reminds me a lot of Godard’s Contempt… which I can’t say is something I’ve ever said about a skate video before.

Yeah, I really like that European New Wave stuff. 

It was awesome working with French Fred and having a really great, small crew that could move fluidly. Making that film was really a nice time. It was a total pleasure. 

self foot portrait - 16mm wheel filming rig
"cuatro suenos pequenos" - santa cruz, 2012

How does that experience compare with your work on SB Chronicles 3? 

Yeah, I’m helping art direct for the new Chronicles movie and I went on a trip to Chile with the guys not too long ago. I wasn’t filming as much as shooting portraits. Just being like, “Hey guys, come over here and shoot this portrait with me real quick.”

It’s a little different, for sure. On Quatros, for example, I’m the boss. I’m the director. I’m making sure the vision is taken care of and directing what is happening…  and I don’t always like being that person. Sometimes it’s more fun being a sideline person. 

But the trip was super fun. Everyone was really cool and they were all ripping. I love Kevin Bradley’s skating and with Cory, anything can happen at any time. That’s my favorite. And Koston was awesome. It was a great vibe. 

ed templeton - lipslide - garden grove, 1993

We talked about Swank and Blender earlier. Why don’t we see as many pros doing their own graphics and taking on these artistic pursuits like we used to? Is skateboarding still attracting the same weirdos? 

I think in the 80s when all the art stuff came to the forefront, being a professional skateboarder wasn’t as structured. The amount of stuff that needed to be done wasn’t on that crazy of a level. The level of skating wasn’t that high yet. I think this left a lot of room to do other things and be creative. The demand now is so high for what people have to do in order to be competitive, it doesn’t lend them as much time. 

If you look at companies like Magenta or Welcome, those guys are having fun. There is a quantifiable balance: skating good but not killing themselves. Maybe that opens up their brains more towards being weird and making weird shit… instead of a serious gnar athlete obsessing over that next crushing maneuver they’re going to take P-Rod out with in the comp. 

t campbell, back d - le vague, paris, 1994
photo: deberdt

Let’s inspire some weirdos with this last question: Recommend one album, one book and one film. 

Okay, I’d say probably one of the records I’ve listened to the most in the last decade is from this band, Girls. It’s their first record, called “Album”. All their records are really good but I think that one is just amazing. Even though a lot of people hate it… which is probably a good sign. 

The movie that’s coming to mind right now is one I’ve always loved called Birdy. It’s with Mathew Modine and Nicolas Cage and is a full-on 80’s movie but it’s really good.

And I just saw Madars at Element Skate Camp… I’d told him a while ago that he should read Miles Davis’ autobiography. Since then, he got around to reading it and was amped about it. It’s super raw. It’s Miles telling all these stories like, “You broke dick dog motherfucker!”…cutting everyone down, telling jazz history according to Miles.

He’s such a dark character. It’s called “Miles” and its pretty long but when you’re done, you’ll wish it was longer. It’s really good. 

big thanks to Whiteley and T-Muck for taking the time,,,

chrome ball interview #84: jerry hsu

chops sits down with jerry for some conversation.

So how’s your Made 2 part coming along, Jerry? 

I feel like it’s going pretty good. I’m skating a lot. It actually feels really good just to have a project to work on again. After you’ve been skating a while, it definitely helps to have a goal in order to push yourself and get into a routine. 

When you’re younger, you’re just naturally going out and skating. You don’t even need a project. You’re always building up footage anyway so when a video does finally come along, it’s just like, “Here you go.” 

This one’s a little different for me as I’m working towards a goal... so many goals inside my mind that drive me crazy. Stay Gold was like that, too, but I was a mess. I need more rest these days. It’s hard but at the same time, it’s really rewarding because tricks just seem harder to do now. It’s much more rewarding to actually get them on film. 

Our deadline is at the end of the year but those are always pretty tentative.

How does Emerica go about choosing which riders are going to be featured? Like, did you know while they were out making Made 1 that you were up next? 

It’s funny because no, we didn’t know. The only reason Made 1 even happened was because Westgate and Leo kept on filming after Stay Gold finished. They just kept on building more footage to where Miner basically decided to make another video with those guys. It’s not like we all got together and decided to make this series of videos. But when Made came out with the name Volume 1, it became pretty obvious how this was going to play out. 

“Oh… I guess we’re all gonna have to be in Volume 2 then, right?” (laughs) 

They didn’t exactly ask us but I’m fine with it. I’m just happy to have a project to work on. 

I have to imagine as a close friend that Spanky’s resurgence has been amazing to see firsthand. When did you start to realize how serious Kevin was taking all of this? 

Spanky is my best friend. I skate with him everyday so I’ve watched this whole thing go down; from being at the top, falling to the bottom and back again. I’ve been there throughout this entire thing and it really has been inspiring.  When he lost his sponsors, especially Baker, that was definitely a difficult thing to have happen but he was never bitter about any of it. He was always thankful to skateboarding for what it had given him. He understood that what had happened was his fault and that he needed to change. A lot of people don’t take that news so gracefully. 

Not at all. 

Yeah, but he knew that he had to change his life and he did so. He decided to get serious about skating again because he still loves it and that’s what he wants to do. He started trying to figure out what to do, looking at other possible sponsors. He’d ask me if he should ride for this or that company and I really didn’t know what to say. He was discovering skateboarding again and that was rad to see but now money was also an issue. 

That’s when things get real. 

I don’t think he really wanted to ride for anyone but Baker. I was trying to get him to call other people but I’m glad he didn’t listen to me.

But it’s crazy how his skating just came back immediately. At the time, I was starting to go out with Andrew and Herman for the video and Spanky was coming along with us. He was ripping! Miner was always happy to film him and after about 6 months or so, he just had all this stuff. It just became clear to everyone that Spanky was back. 

It became this thing where Andrew recognized what Spanky was doing and if he kept on this path, he’d get his board back. Andrew talked to me about it a little and he wanted to keep it between us… which was really hard for me not to tell Spanky. He was already skating so well but I just had to let it happen. I do think Andrew kinda hinted to him at one point a little later and that’s when he really started turning it on. As soon as he realized there was a possibility of getting his board back on Baker, it was on for him. That's a pretty rare thing to have happen.

I’m super proud of him. He had taken such a hit to his ego but stayed humble and did the work to get it all back. He never complained, ever. And for him to work so hard and come back is also like a gift for us because we all really love him and want him around. Having him part of this project makes me very thankful.

photo: colen

Super good, man. So are there going to be any concepts again for your part this time? Another all switch part perhaps? Or will it just be full-on Jerry for Made 2?

I guess Made 2 is going to be full-on me? My part is gonna be pretty different because I can’t really skate things like drops, handrails and gaps the way I used to. That type of stuff is going to be pretty minimal. I think there’s going to be a lot more lines this time… a lot of schoolyards, banks and ditches. I’ve had to adjust the way I skate. I’ve started to look at my environment and my targets differently. 

The thing is that if I still skated the way I used to, I’d probably only have 5 tricks in the video. If I go out and skate a double-set today, I’ll basically be in pain for the next week. Then I’ll have to work my way back up from there only to get wrecked again. It’s just ridiculous. 

Andrew echoed the same thing in his interview as well. 

It’s kinda cool to evolve, actually. You don’t want to be doing the same thing forever. Having to use your mind and imagination again is awesome. The handicap is actually healthy because it helps you grow as a skater. Personally, I feel like learning how to skate other stuff than what I’m used to has been really rewarding for me. 

photo: whiteley

So much has always been made of your slams over the years. Has that started to weigh on your mind as you’ve gotten older? Why do you think people like watching you hurt yourself, Jerry?

I feel like it’s always been a bit sensationalized. It’s this thing where I’ll go for something and if I slam, it just looks so terrible and sometimes it is. Some people love seeing that stuff and some people don’t but I understand that it mixes it up. It’s an exciting thing to put in a video. 

With my Stay Gold part, I didn’t really have that much footage. Miner made the choice to edit it the way he did, which I feel really sensationalized how much work I put into it. I think some people do like that aspect of it, that it shows how hard skateboarding can be. That’s what people tell me anyway… that we all get back up and try again. 

I think it shows both a work ethic as well as humanizes you as a pro. I realize that nobody is really enjoys watching their own parts but is that Stay Gold one a hard one for you to watch, in particular? 

I just don’t really like watching it because it’s me. Pro skaters are the most insecure people in the world. They constantly need reassurance. Is this cool? Did I do that okay? Should I do this again? Filmers and photographers seriously have to deal with so much insecure skater crap. 

“Yes, it’s fine. You’re good.”

But I will say that if you’re known for something like slamming, it does kinda make you feel like you suck. If I slam at a skatepark or some place where there are a lot of people around, it’s almost like they’ve been expecting it or something. It’s like everyone thinks I’m always falling. That can be pretty embarrassing and kind of a bummer. It kinda fucks with your concentration, too, but it’s okay. That’s just the way I skate. I can’t really change that, even if I wanted to… although it would definitely hurt less.  

photo: whiteley

How did that switch concept come about anyways? I know you were having trouble with injuries, is that a theme you’d been thinking about for a long time? 

Honestly, no, that is not something that I’ve ever wanted to do. It wasn’t planned at all. 

That part was a hard one for me because I actually had 2 knee surgeries during the filming of that video in addition to getting on the team right in the middle of filming. Most people had a couple more years to film as I was late to the party, on top of those injuries. 

So… are you regular-footed or goofy-footed?

I’m regular-footed.

Ok, so imagine your right knee had a really bad injury that you’re recovering from. Whenever you ollie, you pop off your right foot. That’s the foot that will propel you. Your other foot will lift you but it’s that right foot that snaps off the ground and pushes you into the air. Well, my back knee was so hurt at the time that I couldn’t skate normal…  but I could skate switch. So, it was completely the injury. 

I did film a few things that were regular but they just weren’t all that good. I think Miner made a good choice with the switch theme because it made the whole thing much stronger. He took maybe 16 tricks and turned it into an entire video part. He made a half-assed video part into a drama with all of this struggle in the beginning before it turns around in the middle. He gave it a story to make up for my injuries.

So the “switch part” wasn’t even your idea? It wasn’t something you were actively working towards during filming?

No, filming was all done. It was his decision all on his own and I really owe him for that. Without his choices, that part would’ve been some 45-second thing that just went by. That was all Jon Miner. 

You mentioned earlier how much planning your filming process now requires. Do you find yourself doing more homework and even making lists these days? Because I know for a while after Bag of Suck, you definitely seemed a little over it. 

I’ve kinda gone back to being a kid again. I’m making trick lists now. I’m watching videos constantly again. It’s been really fun. 

You’re right in that there was a time where I wasn’t really interested in skating that much. I was pretty burnt on it… not that it’s a bad thing to feel that way. Highs and lows are natural and I think it’s necessary to walk away from something you’re passionate about for a little bit when it becomes a bit too intense. 

It just feels good to be working on a project. I’ve started to find myself researching spots, going to check them out and fixing them if need be. I’m making lists and practicing. Even going out skating with the crew on days when I’m not actually filming, just to skate whatever. Fun stuff. 

All of this has been a really awesome side effect of Made 2 that I wasn’t even expecting. But all that energy being spent towards skating also means that it’s much more serious overall. Along with the lists, there are schedules. We're meeting at this time on this day, we’re doing this trick at this spot with this photographer. It’s not as spontaneous now. Because I still want to do things that are hard and film something worthwhile, there needs to be a process now as opposed to when you’re younger and shit just happens. 

Is it more stressful as a kid going into the unknown or as a pro with so many great parts to live up to?

As far as “the unknown”, they’re actually both kind of the same. As a kid, everything is open and exciting compared to when you’re older and things are expected of you. Personal expectations and otherwise. There are personal demons you have to conquer. That can be less exciting but is probably more gratifying to conquer. 

When you’re younger, you take that stuff for granted because it all comes so easily. But when you’re older, it takes more effort… blood, sweat or whatever. If I land a trick now that I’m proud of, I come home and celebrate a little. It’s something that I’ve put a lot of time and effort into. 

That’s the difference between being young and not knowing versus being old and experienced. You are aware of what has happened previously while simultaneously trying to do it all again. You just can’t take anything for granted anymore. 

Didn’t you film for Black Cat and The Storm at the same time? That’s like 8 minutes of footage in a year. 

Yeah, just like I said, that just comes with being young and going out filming all the time. You go out with your friends and a camera and stuff happens. You just amass all this footage and at the end, it’s awesome. You just pick and choose where you want each thing to go. 

Which part got the better stuff? 

I’d say Black Cat because it was a time when board companies were much more important. Filming for your board sponsor was such a big deal so I definitely sent my best stuff to Maple. It’s funny because the Osiris people actually tried to buy clips off of me that they knew I was sending to Maple and I wouldn’t do it. Nope, not for sale. (laughs)

Skipping right past the Storm Flip, what was it like being part of that enormous Osiris team during that era? 

I was always kind of an outsider on the team. That was basically when San Diego was an epicenter of skating but that style and aesthetic… I wouldn’t really call my thing. I was just happy to be sponsored really. To be a part of that group with all its successes was a total trip. It was a really crazy time and everyone kinda got swept up by the whole thing. 

Part of the team was definitely delusional. All of a sudden being given so much and becoming famous really tweaked a lot of people on the team and at the company. They thought it was going to last forever. But I had my friends there and I rolled with it for like 10 years.

So even at such a young age, you never got caught up in the Kasparholic glory days? It seemed just as over-the-top from the inside as it did to everyone else? 

I was young but I still knew how crazy and delusional Josh was. I actually kind picked on him a little bit because of the things that he’d do on tours. I don’t want to throw him under the bus too hard here but how he would go about these demos…I heard he was really influenced by pro wrestling and that made a lot of sense to me. He would apply that same mentality to his skating. Like, I know he would bail tricks on purpose at demos just to dramatize his skating. Ollieing off vert ramps and constantly trying to hype up the crowd, literally trying to get them to chant his name.  

Sometimes he would get these kids foaming at the mouth and then not be able to do his trick or he would slam real bad. Everyone would just lower their heads like, “Oh man...”

Josh was an example of someone who was poisoned by “success”. I’m sure he’s much different now but referring to himself in the third-person back then… that was 100% a real thing.  

Who would you say had your favorite part in the Storm?

This might surprise some people but I always really liked Chad Fernandez’ part. He was so gnarly. He did some really impressive things in there and I gotta hand it to him. 

photo: whiteley

Never gets old. Why do you think Osiris and things like the D3 are so heavily ridiculed? It’s not like it existed in a vacuum and there were plenty of other things around just as goofy at the time.

I do think that it kinda deserved that ridicule. Osiris had this hip-hop/skate mentality, which is an easy target in a world like skateboarding. And there were definitely times where I was personally embarrassed by some of the things that the company or my teammates would do. Stuff like ollieing a DJ. 

Meanwhile, you’re skating to Stereolab.

(laughs) Totally, and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t their first choice for me. I just figured since I kinda stuck out on the team already, I might as well go with music I liked.

I think the thing about Osiris is that they took themselves too seriously. It’s hard to put into words about what made Osiris kind of a goofy company but, at the same time, it’s totally obvious. It’s the mix of late 90’s San Diego, rap and skateboarding cultures. Osiris embodied those three things and sold a lot of shoes but left a lot of people wondering what the hell was going on. It’s easy to make fun of. It’s kind of silly in the same way something like hair metal, punk rock, stoner rock or riding motorcycles can be. Skaters just want to see skating and when there’s all this peripheral popular culture mixed in, it can be a real turn-off. 

Plus, the money. They had so much money that good ideas took a backseat. When you don’t have to struggle to succeed, you can become complacent and start going with ideas that may not be the best. Throwing money at something doesn’t make it better. It has to be a good idea and maybe Osiris wasn’t coming up with the best ones.  

We Kill Trees and Party. Jerry Don’t Surf. Hairdiaper Cameltoe. So many classics. What’s your all-time favorite Enjoi Ad?  

Hairdiaper Cameltoe is pretty fucking sick. That one is very Marc Johnson. I like the found photo ads, too… like “Even your two dads love enjoi”.  And my goodbye ad: It’s not you, it’s me. That was Louie’s idea.

There’s so many to choose from but Weiger’s backtail with this whole name on the bottom of the board… wow, that was genius. Wieger came up with that, Louie built the board and Matt designed the ad. So funny. 

I also loved any ad satirizing the business side of skateboarding; the greedy pig mask ads or just things that expressed Matt’s mood at the time whenever the ads were due. Like one time, he just made an ad with a sinking ship on it because he was so frustrated. 

Another one of my favorites is the Jake Phelps “Why Can’t My Boyfriend Skate?” ad, which caused a lot of controversy. 

I remember Matt asking me beforehand, “Should I even do this?”

“I don’t know, man. You’re really going to hear about it with this one.”

“Ok, I’m gonna do it.”

One thing that always trips me out are all of the riders who came and went at Enjoi prior to Bag of Suck (Rodney, Puleo, Staba, Mayhew, MJ, etc.). Why was there such a high turnover in those early years? Did it make things hard for you to stick with the company or did each migration further enhance your role within? 

Riders coming and going on a company like enjoi doesn’t really seem that weird to me at all. There were definitely a couple guys that got on that I was confused about to begin with. I mean, if Rodney or Marc wanted a kid on the team, they got on. But I think enjoi attracts a lot of weirdos and weirdos can just decide to quit one day out of the blue.

The only person who left that made a big impact was Marc, obviously. After that, my role got a little bigger but I just focused on skating and not all that other noise. 

Talk a little about the proposed migration of the majority of Enjoi riders to a new company at Girl when MJ was first trying to leave. Do you remember any talk of this?

I don’t think that was a very realistic thing. It was nothing more than ideas and talk and wishful thinking. It was never seriously discussed. 

Marc left because he didn’t work well at Dwindle. He didn’t like feeling that Dwindle had control over the company’s money and ideas. He’s a stubborn, highly-intelligent guy so when things aren’t really going the right way, he’s just gonna go, “I’m outta here,” and I back that.

He could leave and just be a professional skateboarder somewhere else. He didn’t want to run his own board company anymore and who can blame him? Running a company while being a pro skateboarder at the same time has to be very difficult. He’d just had a kid and was dealing with a lot of stuff. He needed to be somewhere that would take care of him. At Girl and Chocolate, that is very much the case. 

I didn’t understand any of this at the time and I was honestly very upset when he left. It wasn’t until later that I started to understand. 

But no, I remember the Enjoi-at-Girl thing being mentioned but it never really went further than that. Not seriously. I mean, I know Mike and Rick are fans but realistically, that wasn’t gonna happen.

photo: whiteley

Going back a little bit, weren’t you also rumored to be part of a proposed Phil Shao company prior to Enjoi as well? Dump Truck?

Yeah, that’s true. Phil was going to start up a new company right before he passed away. I remember having a meeting about it at Mark Whiteley’s house in Palo Alto where Phil told me all about what he wanted to do and who he wanted on the team. It sounded really cool but I had just turned pro for Maple and was very loyal to them. They had done so much for me. 

I told Phil that I was going to think about it but honestly, I probably wasn’t going to do it. I definitely respected Phil to the utmost but I just couldn’t quit Maple at that time. It’s sad to think about because that was probably the last time I saw Phil. 

So we gotta get into it: your 7-minute magnum opus that is Bag of Suck. Having not put out a part in a minute, did you go into this thinking that it was going to be your big statement? How long were you guys filming for that and were you ultimately happy with how it came out?

I was happy with how it all came out but I never planned for it to become anything. Usually a video starts by just going out filming for a bit. That goes on for a little while before you start to hear some rumblings. Maybe we’re making a video? It was never like, “Ok, today we’re going to start a video.” Maybe it’s more like that today.

I’d been putting stuff towards Bag of Suck for a long time. There’s footage in there from maybe 4 or 5 years out but it was weird because we were never really sure if we were even making a video for the longest time. It really wasn’t until the last year and a half or so that it became really serious. Like, we’re fucking doing this and I’m going out as much as I possibly can to do as much as I possibly can.

But no, it was never supposed to be this big statement-type thing. I only planned on doing my best. Trying as hard as I could.  I didn’t have any other projects going on so there was nothing in the way for me. Like we talked about earlier, Black Cat and The Storm basically split my skate brain in two. This time I didn’t have to multi-task. When you have a singular focus, you skate harder. You can either do an ok job at two things or a really good job at one thing. Since there was no other thing I had to be responsible for, it came out better that way. 

How’d that nollie backside heel at Lincoln ender-ender go down? Was that just you searching for a closer?

Not really. By that point, we were in the final month of the project and my entire part was basically done. Filming was over. I’d already tried that one earlier and was unable to land it. 

It was basically a situation that happens between skaters and their filmer at the end of a long project where things can get tense.  I went over to Matt Evs’ apartment as he was working on shit, just to check in on everything. I said something to the effect of, “I know you’re really stressed right now but do you need me to help with anything?”

He just turns to me and says, “Just go do that backside nollie heelflip.”

I was like, “What an asshole!”… but it really drove me to try it again.

It was literally the last day before Matt was to drive to LA and begin mastering the video at Dwindle. The last possible day and it was looking pretty dark, man. I was in a weird place. There was all this pressure. My heel was hurting. I was at the top of those stairs, just going full speed at them and I wasn’t even coming close at all. I wasn’t even catching it. And then, luckily, it just happened. 

photo: whiteley

So amazing, man. But what about the intros in that one? Was that stuff fun to do? I know there’s that one shot by the pool where the phone is already dialed on 911, was that stuff really so sketchy to do? 

Those were just fun little projects but no, I don’t think they were really that sketchy. But I liked them because they were creative analog titles and no one was really doing things like that at the time. I felt it was like a nod to that whole Tiltmode aesthetic; a very DIY approach. I’ve always felt that Enjoi was birthed out of the whole Tiltmode movement. Tiltmode was basically the mother of Enjoi. 

We talked earlier about that Phelps ad. Be honest, and I know it’s kinda goofy, but you had to be a little bummed about not winning SOTY that year, right? I know it wasn’t as much of a thing then but you were definitely my choice. 

(laughs) Thanks, man. But yeah, SOTY wasn’t like how it is now where people basically campaign for it. It’s kinda weird… like you’re trying to become the President of Skateboarding or something. At that point, it was starting to evolve into the campaign that it is now but it wasn’t quite there yet. 

I’d heard through my friend Mark Whiteley, who worked at High Speed, that I was being considered for it. Of course, I was pretty shocked by that but I didn’t really know what to do with that information. I ended up making the decision to call Jake. I didn’t really want to but I figured I would regret it later if I didn’t at least ask. It’s often too easy to play that kind of stuff off. Downplaying things in order not to look dumb. I had to get over the fact that I actually wanted it.

Jake was very frank about everything. He was considering me for it but I hadn’t really been in Thrasher that much over the year, which was true. He basically told me that I wasn’t going to get it. That I had skated hard and definitely could’ve gotten it but I hadn’t played the game. I just didn’t know, there were no rules really at that point. Whether that really mattered or not, who knows. It would’ve been nice but it was an honor just to be considered.

photo: tanju

From your 411 parts in class and in the Maple van through all the Tiltmode stuff and up to your Welcome to Chocolate ad, you’ve always had a flair for doing skits. Why is that? Would you ever consider acting or, I know you’re into photography, possibly directing short films in the future?

To be honest, most of those weren’t my idea. Skits are just a part of skate videos. People have been doing this stuff since Animal Chin and beyond. I don’t like acting at all but doing skits was just kind of effective, I guess. But wow, watching those old 411 skits is extremely painful. 

I gotta ask about my all-time favorite, though, with the baseball bat and RailChomper2015 in Bonus Round. So amazing. Is that a response to anything in particular?

That was Matt Evs’ idea. People talking shit on the internet had just started to become so commonplace in skating, he wanted to comment on the whole situation and how shitty people can be. I felt the same way. It was really nothing specific on my end, Matt just happened to pick me for it…. though I do feel like I am sort of a target on the internet for some reason. I don’t really know why. 

I remember the first time I read a really nasty comment about my skating on the internet. It was crippling and I probably didn’t get over it for like two years. “What a baby”, I know, but our brains have a bias towards negativity. Like if you receive 1 negative comment out of 100 postive ones, you’ll only think about the bad one. Like I said before, skaters are so insecure.

I also put a lot of personal stuff on the internet, like photography, and I feel people love to criticize that.  

photo: brook

I know you’ve talked about the departure of Matt Evs having a large part in your own leaving of Enjoi but how did Chocolate come about? Were you actively looking and were there other options you were thinking about? 

I really had no idea where I was gonna go when I decided to leave Enjoi. And it was at a time when my stock wasn’t exactly at its highest so I was scared. It was kind of a make-or-break moment for me. I had nothing planned and I didn’t really know what I was worth anymore. I didn’t know what people thought of me and if I actually had a chance anywhere else. Skateboarding can be pretty cold. It’s always been good to me but it can be unfair. I’ve definitely watched people around me just drop like flies and it’s really scary. 

Someone I’ve always turned to over the years has been Marc. He got me on Maple. He got me on Enjoi. So I called him and explained what was going on. I am appreciative for all that he’s done for me in the past but I was wondering if there was a chance he could maybe help me out again. 

“Of course, I will help you! I’m not going to promise you anything but I will put in a good word.”

It wasn’t easy for Mike and Rick to put me on as they had just turned Raven, Stevie and Elijah pro. Putting on another guy wasn’t easy for them but they made it happen. I couldn’t be more appreciative because I went from not even knowing if anybody would sponsor me at all to getting on Chocolate, which is something I thought could never happen. 

I actually remember Alex Olson asking me if I’d like to ride for Chocolate years ago. I told him I was too involved with Enjoi at the time but was totally flattered.

Honestly, I really felt that I wasn’t worthy of riding for a company like that. It’s like the SOTY thing where I was afraid of rejection but I had to at least try. I had to ask. There were other offers, too, but they didn’t feel right.

How was Stay Flared? Combining Chocolate Jerry with Emerica Jerry had to be a breath of fresh air. What was the most surprising thing from the experience?

The most surprising thing about that tour is just how well it worked. Four vans, 2 teams and so many strong personalities on one trip with one goal… and it went swimmingly. So fun and so easy. It was awesome. 

The teams got along so well together. And to be on a tour with that many legendary skaters, doing demos together, being a waiter’s worst nightmare together... It was amazing and I’m so thankful to have been part of that. Just waking up everyday and going into the parking lot where everyone is sitting around, talking and laughing together while Biebel’s doing push-ups. It was a wonderful.

Is there supposed to be a Beauty and the Beast-style video on the way with all that stuff?

Well, unfortunately in this day and age, there probably won’t be. There are the Thrasher episodes but it would be nice to have a physical thing like a long, cohesive video. It’s doubtful, though. It’s in Thrasher’s hands. There’s enough footage for it to be a full video but at the same time, I imagine Beauty and the Beast having a totally different feeling. Stay Flared was mostly just demos and street. 

Good point. So what’s next, Jerry? I know you have Made 2 coming up but any other future plans, skating or otherwise? 

Other than the next video, I’m also working on another art project with my photography. Just trying to explore and learn more about that. That’s the nice thing about being a skateboarder is that it affords me time to explore these other things. That’s always in the back of my mind. Whenever I’m not skating, that’s what I’m doing. That’s what is fun and rewarding to me, outside of skateboarding. 

But to be honest, I’m so focused on this Made 2 project that I’m hardly even thinking about anything else. 

Good to hear. Last question, all-time best San Jose skater?

Fuck! That’s a rough one to end on, man. That’s hard. 

There’s no way to say who the all-time “best” is but I’m gonna give it to Mike Crabtree. It’s just one of those things where nobody knows how gnarly this human being is. He’s so raw and talented but so much went unrecorded. If you were lucky enough to see it firsthand, you know it happened. He’s legendary in San Jose and I have so much respect for him… in the same way that I have to mention Crazy Eddie here, too. Crazy Eddie is another one. He’s not a very documented skater. Barely anybody knows who he is but everytime I saw him skate, I was amazed. Casually fakie ollieing into bowls instead of dropping in… the type of skating where he’s in the middle of the air and you just know he’s about to die… and then he does it. 

There’s so many people to choose from. Salman, Cab…

I figured you might go with one of those two but I’m stoked on your answer.

Yeah, those guys are obviously legendary skaters. Ray Barbee, too. But I have to give it to a guy like Crabtree for being so gnarly just for himself. Someone who doesn’t care about the money or the glory, just the thrill of doing it. You have to respect that. 

Thanks to Mark Whiteley and Jerry for taking the time.