Growing up in New Orleans, did you always have “the dream” of becoming a professional skateboarder?
No, not really. I drew my own graphics in school every now and then, but that was just messing around. Daydreaming. It really wasn’t a thing.
I started skating in ’85 and got sponsored in ’88. But back then, there weren’t that many pro street skateboarders, you know? Not like it is now. It almost seemed unattainable. I mean, I guess you can dream, but geographically as well, it just didn’t seem realistic. In New Orleans at the time, skateboarding was still an outsider/counter culture kinda thing.
Something people might not know is that I moved to Florida for a year. I lived in St. Petersburg from ’87 to ’88. And when we moved back to New Orleans, that’s when I met the group of skateboarders that I’d essentially latch onto growing up. They were all a year or two older than me, and all kinda “bad”, you know? Doing “bad things” or whatever. (laughs).
...I was more absorbed in the skateboarding aspect of it. Not so much the misfit culture surrounding it, like smoking cigarettes or whatever. I just wanted to skate.
Did seeing local rippers like Sal or Charlie Thomas get sponsored change things for you?
Yeah, Charlie was in Lafayette, Sal in Baton Rouge and I was in New Orleans. It was like a triangle, and all of the skateboarders would hang out together, constantly going back and forth between the cities. And looking back, hanging out with skateboarders who were better than me has always been the key for me.
Charlie and I were both coming up around the same time. He’s a year older than me, so he was a little more advanced, but it feel like we were in the same boat for a while. It was inspiring to see things starting to happen for people I know. And I guess it did make a career feel a little more realistic, but even then, I still wasn’t sure about the pro thing. Maybe I could get sponsored, but that was probably gonna be about it.
Were you making sponsor-me tapes?
Yeah, we would always film. Our friend “Will Wonka” had an old-school VHS camera and we would make little videos, too. I’m trying to remember how those tapes played into me getting sponsored… maybe Tracker flow? But that probably had more to do with Sal than anything.
Yeah, I forgot about Sal being on Tracker back then.
Yeah, that was all because of Sal. I had that connection, which might’ve been even better than a sponsor-me tape at the time.
Weren’t you on Vision flow for a minute, too?
Vision possibly could’ve/would’ve worked out, but it didn’t.
I went through the NSA amateur contest series for two years back then. And the first year, I got fifth in my districts, which meant that I got through to the regionals in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The Vision team manager was supposed to fly out to the regionals, too, and check me out for the team, but his flight got delayed. This was all through a mutual friend. The Vision TM was supposed to be there for practice the day before the big contest but couldn’t make it.
So, I go to practice and there’s this dude sitting by the course, just outside the fence, and I notice that he keeps watching me skate. At the end of the practice session, he comes up and asks if I want to ride for G&S in the contest tomorrow. It was Mike Hill.
Full-on sponsored?
Fully on, yeah. Just by watching me in practice for a couple hours. Even as a fifteen-year-old, I somehow knew the magnitude of that offer and said yes immediately.
That’s when I met Dyrdek for the first time, too.
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| photo: hill |
So you get on at the regionals, and by the finals, you’re already in the video talking to Ernie?
(laughs) Yeah, I got 12th in the regionals, so I went on to the finals in Tempe, Arizona. Across the street from the contest was a swap meet and that’s where Hill bought the Ernie puppet. I don’t even know why, he just bought it. And I’ve always been silly and done silly shit. I don’t know, dude… I just put on a shower cap and did it.
You were already comfortable enough to be that silly in front of those dudes like that?
Yeah, Rob and I bonded really quickly. I think it was easier back then, as young skateboarders when there weren’t too many skateboarders in the world. We’re also the same age and I’m sure we felt some team camaraderie there, too. I always got along with Hill really well, too.
As far as putting myself out there, I’ll chalk that up to being from New Orleans. We’re typically characters, and we hang around with a lot of characters. Skateboarders tend to be characters as well, so there you go. The stuff I’m saying in that little clip was almost all New Orleans slang from our crew. Like “Hope so, dude!” That was a phrase we all uttered back then, like an affirmation, but I don’t think anybody else knew that. They were all like, “What the fuck?” (laughs)
Yeah, they didn’t have to cue me to be weird. I just put that shower cap on in the room and Hill started filming. It wasn’t like a skit or anything.
Who is talking in the background?
Dyrdek has the high-pitched laugh and “You’re wack, man” is Hill.
What’s funny is that my son, Rhodes, recently got into skating. He’s seven. I wanted to show him some of my old videos, so I actually watched Footage the other day for the first time in years. It’s really fresh in my mind.
But it’s wild that you’re already filming for Footage so quickly after getting on the team.
It’s weird because when you’re young, time feels so much longer. Like, a month feels like six months. I got on G&S in July and those finals were probably in August? So it was probably only a month before I’m shooting that little scene. I imagine that being at the start of them filming for Footage. Certainly not before that.
How did you film for Footage? Because you have both Louisiana and San Diego stuff in there.
Steve Claar, Carter and Hill all came out to New Orleans a few months after that contest to film me for a couple days. I remember them really wanting to film me at my regular spots, which was rad. They always liked the fact I was from New Orleans and not those typical locales in California. That’s actually a big reason why they’d later start the Workshop out of Ohio. That’s just their thing. I don’t want to call them “underdog” places, but they always found those types of places more interesting.
Footage for me was basically those New Orleans sessions and a trip out to California over Christmas break. And a little bit of Arizona stuff, too.
It came out in 1990, right before the summer. That would mean I got sponsored and ten months later, the video came out. Because “The Wagon” hadn’t been released yet. Blender got that for us, as I was already a big Dinosaur Jr. fan myself. I was beyond hyped hearing that for the first time in my first video part. That was pretty special.
Sounds like you actually had some time to film. Not a lot, but this was also back in the days of having four hours to film an entire part.
Yeah, I think Dyrdek and I were being looked at as probably turning pro soon, so they really wanted to spotlight us. I’d say that’s why they gave us first and second part.
Are you ollieing 13 stairs in that first clip?
Yeah, that was in Baton Rouge at this spot called the Centroplex. All of the stuff you see in that part with the white ledges, that was the spot. I also had some stuff there in Memory Screen, too… where Rob and I both ollie that wall with the bricks? Same spot. You never got to skate there for very long because you always got kicked out, so that place was always a dream.
But no, I’d never ollied that many stairs before. I figured since these guys are coming out from California to film me, I’m gonna have to do something outside of my comfort zone. I guess I’ll throw myself down this thing.
You got that Carlsbad double-set ender, too! Getting buck!
(laughs) It’s video filming, you know? I’m sure that sort of thing is common, especially back then. Because you only had this small window to make something happen, you gotta make the most of it.
That portrait ad you had for Footage with the willy grind, is that your actual bedroom?
Yep, that’s the bedroom where I received my first package of boards and also where I turned pro in, too. That’s where I got the phone call. Just your typical teenage skateboarder’s bedroom. If you look close, there’s a Mike Hill ad hanging on my wall back there. And yes, I looked quite sickly. (laughs)
I actually had very long, beautiful hair right before that, and then I just decided to shave it all off and bleach it.
But didn’t you go over to H-Street for a hot minute around this time?
Yeah, that was kind of a mess.
Let me preface this by saying I’m a very humble person. I’m not one to complain about not getting enough product. I’ve always been very appreciative of anything I’ve gotten because I didn’t come from a background with very much money.
What happened was Carter went over to Europe for some vert contests. And because Carter was out, he told me to talk to Henry Hester if I needed anything. Henry was basically the tog dawg in command at the time, so I call G&S and talk to Henry, asking for a package. A couple boards and I specifically remember saying, “Can I get some shirts?”
He literally goes, “I’ll see what I can do.”
(laughs) Money doesn’t grow on trees, son.
(laughs) Right? Even back then, I remember thinking to myself, “What!?!”
Because Sarge would send me shirts all the time. I would destroy them while skating and they’d send me more. That’s kinda how it worked. Why is this a problem now? I don’t have a lot of money, but I would love to wear these shirts and represent your brand that I am sponsored by.
And it’s a fucking t-shirt.
Exactly! So, suddenly, I felt very unappreciated. I mean, Sarge was the total opposite. He’d send me whatever I wanted… within reason, of course.
Weird timing: It just so happened that around this time, Sal asks me to ride for H-Street. He wanted me and Charlie Thomas on the team to represent Louisiana across the board. And this is when H-Street was really happening. You’d hear about dudes getting boxes just packed with shit. Sounds good, right? So I said yes and they send me this giant box with four boards and jam-packed with shirts, like they seriously couldn’t fit any more stuff into this box. Because that’s what H-Street did.
Somehow, word got back to Sarge. All of a sudden, he’s calling me from Europe, like, “What happened? What is going on?”
I tell him and he’s like, “Dude, we have something to show you. We want to send you something and really have you think about it before making your final decision.”
It ended up being the first cut of Footage on VHS. Still a rough cut, but very close to what the final edit would end up being, and I had the first part. Sarge tells me, “You need to see this. Because on H-Street, you’re just gonna be another rider. You and Rob are our main focus when it comes to new riders.”
He was right. And once I saw the edit, I got it and immediately came back to G&S. But the most important thing in all of this is that they never mentioned the Workshop. And they already had the concept going, but they never told me about it because they didn’t want that to be the reason I came back. Workshop was always going to be me, Rob, Claar and Blender. That was the concept. Yeah, they might’ve had other people in mind, but we were the initial core four to begin with. And to this day, I respect Carter and Hill so much for handling things that way.
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| The mothership. |
So how was Alien pitched to you? Were you at the legendary Denny’s meetup in San Clemente?
Yes, they flew both Rob and I out to San Diego and we went to the Denny’s. It was Hill and Carter, and I guess Blender must’ve been there, too. And they told us the concept.
How did they describe it?
Well, I think if you looked at Footage, you could get a sense of Mike’s aesthetic at the time and overall approach to things. And having an appreciation for his work and already being into counter culture-type stuff myself, I had a pretty good idea where they could go.
I can’t remember exactly how they pitched it… although, I do remember that it was in one of those wraparound booths. But they did explain how the concept was based around the “Alien Workshops” in Area 51. They were pretty adamant about wanting it to be “different”. I feel like there was some frustration with G&S, that they actually wanted to take things farther there but couldn’t. Larry Gordon was a Christian, which meant the company would only go so far with things. I guess they saw Alien Workshop as their way of being able to do whatever they wanted.
All of that alien and conspiracy stuff was much different back then.
Yeah, back when conspiracy theories were cool.
(laughs) Right? Exactly.
But yeah, I just remember being completely floored by it. Because this was back then companies were just starting to branch off from other companies, like Blind. It was cool because each of these companies felt like their own little thing. It was no longer these giant companies with all these different riders. Everything felt so new and distilled.
Not that they laid it all out there for me from a to z. They honestly didn’t tell us a lot, but they told us enough. Because I’m sure they were still figuring everything out, too. They had a direction, for sure, but I can’t imagine they had what it was all going to look like just yet. There’s always a natural creative flow to these things, but they were dedicated to their vision and I supported that.
What did you understand that vision to be?
To create something that didn’t exist.
Alien Workshop is the first totally serious skateboard company that I can think of.
Totally, because they wanted to create a world. It wasn’t just a skateboard company. It wasn’t just a video. Alien Workshop was entirely its own universe. I truly felt that at the time and I loved it.
Every graphic, every video part, every ad… starting with my first ad for the Workshop where it’s Rob and I sitting down, looking up in that tunnel-type of thing. Hill had built what was essentially a set for that ad with whatever he had laying around. It felt more like we were all working on an art project together… at least for me anyway. Here’s my first ad for Alien and we’re not even skating, but in my mind, that ad was like our introduction into the Alien Workshop world. We were now part of the story.
It felt like its own subscene, like Andy Warhol in the Factory days with the Velvet Underground. This entire of galaxy of people floating around inside. The cool thing was that everyone inside this little bubble were all very regular people, but it still felt elevated and was being taken to this whole other place... where it could be looked upon it differently from the outside. But we were all still super down-to-earth and real. All very comfortable with each other. No cocky attitudes… because there was a lot of that going on back then, especially in California. Thankfully, there was not a lot of “flexing” going on inside the Workshop, which I greatly appreciated.
It was always called “Alien Workshop”?
As far as I know, because that was the entire direction.
As the story goes, there were aliens, or “visitors” as we called them, who crash landed on Earth and were supposedly being held deep inside Area 51. They were said to be helping the government with different technologies. Flying devices, specifically. The areas where they conducted this work were called “Alien Workshops”, where each visitor had their own little space with a desk, I guess. (laughs)
So yeah, that’s where the name came from and everything was concepted out from there.
…Which included basing the logo off the Denny’s sign outside in the parking lot.
(laughs) Yes, which is still amazing.
How did they go about picking the rest of the team? And did you possibly know Scott and Bo already from your time in St. Petersburg?
That’s totally weird how that all worked out, because Bo and the Conklins are like this whole other side to it.
Going back now, we moved to St. Pete for a year or so in the late ‘80s. It was the summer between sixth and seventh grade for me, and all I did was skateboard. On the weekends, I would ride my bike down to the beach area and skate around there all day because it’s just what you did. And somehow, I ended up at this little curb spot where both Lance and Scott were at. I don’t know how, maybe it’s just my New Orleans friendliness, but I kinda just pushed myself onto those guys that day. And from there, I just started skating around with them, like the little grommet in their crew. And seeing Lance skate back then, in particular, was just mind-blowing. He was one of those amazing guys, like how Sal was, where you’re just like, “What the fuck!?!”
Bo came about in a completely separate way, because I actually met Bo before the Conklins did… I’m sure Bo will correct me on that if I’m wrong. But how that worked out is Bo and I used to cross each other’s path on the way to school every day, even though we went to different schools. And when this kept happening, I just hit the brakes on my bike and introduced myself. Because none of my friends at school skated and Bo had a board. So, we just started talking one day and became friends like you do when you’re a kid.
So yes, I’m almost certain that I’m the one who introduced Bo to the Conklins, because we were all skating together, you know? And a year later, I moved back to New Orleans and those guys ended up growing up together.
How Scott and Bo both managed to get on G&S while I was on there is anybody’s guess. We stayed in contact, but I don’t really remember. Maybe I mentioned something in passing to Carter, but I honestly don’t remember doing that. But somehow, of all things, they not only end up on G&S with me, but now they’re being included in the Alien Workshop mix, too.
I do remember Carter and Hill being very careful to not make it seem like they were stealing everybody from G&S, like a total hijack. But the fact that myself, Bo and Scott were all brought in on this crazy plan, six years after randomly meeting each other during this short Florida chapter in my life is pretty amazing.
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| photo: hill |
Was Mark Heintzman ever in the Alien mix?
Not that I know of. With Mark being from Dayton and super tight with Rob, it might’ve been discussed, but I don’t think so. Because Mark was the top street pro on G&S at the time… again, they didn’t want to hijack the team.
Alien was largely a reaction to “industry bullshit”, but as an amateur living in Louisiana, did you really know what they were talking about?
Oh, I knew. Because I’d gone out to California enough to see how it worked. Going to tradeshows and contests, I’d see the whole glitzy California thing, you know? That whole world of sunshine and action sports. Models walking around tradeshows in bikinis. That whole vibe was so opposite to Carter and Hill’s vision… especially Hill. He just wants to stay inside and make art all day. Or go outside to film and then make art out of that. That’s just who he is.
So yeah, I had a good idea of what they were talking about. And being from New Orleans, it’s not a very glitzy or plastic-y place, either. It’s very real, so I appreciated what all they were talking about on a certain level.
Talk a little more about that the “Teaching Sessions” ad you brought up earlier, because it’s gone on to become quite the recurring motif over the years.
It was shot in the first Alien Workshop warehouse, which was in the back of Cow Skates Distribution… because they had a deal where Alien could rent the space for $1 a month, but Cow got exclusive distribution rights east of the Mississippi.
Rob and I were put inside this crazy tunnel thing, and I just remember Rob laughing about it the whole time. Because it’s Rob, you know? Everything is funny, everything is ridiculous… no pun intended. But for me, I was way more introspective and artsy about it, and I would continue on in this direction for years to come. All of this had a giant impact on me.
I can totally see the connection, but what was that light being pictured there?
Well, the cell pattern was being projected. There was a white sheet on the ground and Hill had made this riser kinda thing to prop up that glowing object. He cut a hole in the riser for the cord to go through, but I can’t remember what that object actually was or what it was made out of. I wonder if he still has it?
Hill would make all kinds of weird shit, like taking found objects and turning them into something completely different. He was resourceful like that, because he kinda had to be. They couldn’t really afford to go out and buy stuff for these projects. They were brewing coffee twice on the same filter, you know? They weren’t about to go buying props for whatever. So, Hill would just fashion together what he could find… almost like a little sculpture. That’s honestly what he was doing there. Making sculptures out of paper mache or just cobbling stuff together.
Did you visit Ohio often? I always heard extraordinary stories of them burying gold and harboring their own water supply, was any of that actually true?
Nah, they were into conspiracy stuff, but nothing like that. But those types of rumors, that’s all a part of it. Like, I was reading the Keith Richards autobiography recently and he was discussing all the lore around him. He plays into it.
You always gotta go with the legend.
Of course! Because it makes the whole thing that much better. It’s limitless, in that sense, because everything builds on itself and people tell more and more stories. There was some stockpiling of things, but gold was certainly not one of them. (laughs)
It was more of an end-of-times kinda thing… not that there was any politics tied to it. It was a bit different back then and I don’t really know how to put it into words, especially in the times we’re living in. This sorta thing has mutated a bit and I don’t want to paint it in the same light as today because it’s not.
But I did go to Ohio quite often. I remember being there for the entire summer that I turned pro, hanging out and getting to know everyone. It actually became my base for a little while there… Basically, any time I had a little break from school, I was either in Ohio or somewhere else with people from Ohio.
Did you know that none of the ads would actually feature skateboarding for the first year? I feel like this approach works well for more established pros like Blender, but could be a little riskier for the lesser known riders.
They did talk about that approach, as far as wanting to do something different and establish this whole entity first. And personally speaking, it didn’t bother me because, again, I was into what they were doing. Plus, Footage had just come out and both Rob and I were starting to establish ourselves via that and a few other things. So, I liked it, but again, I like weird shit. I really wasn’t around Bo and Scott very much at that time, but I’m sure those guys were a little “unsure” about it, safe to say. And I doubt that it was probably Rob’s jam, either… although, he did buy that time machine. (laughs)
Some memorable non-Alien programming around this time was your Tracker ad with Laban and those impossible grab sequences. Your impossible tailgrab down five was mindboggling back then.
That was Dave Swift, I think. Laban and I just happened to be skating together that day and both got impossible grab sequences. Kinda funny to think about how that happened. That was a big California trip for me. I think I was still on G&S there but the Workshop was definitely in the works.
I feel like that was shot around the time Rob and I went to the NSA Am Finals. We were both riding blank boards, which people thought were prototypes for our pro boards. I remember us making stickers at G&S, because you could make a sticker out of any photo there. Rob cut out Cindy Crawford’s body from a magazine and put my head on her. They made it into a full sticker and he put it on the bottom of his board. Honestly, I was a little bummed about that at first, like, “Fuck, dude… Alright, it’s funny.” (laughs)
The reason I bring that up is because people were asking us if that was our prototype, but we already knew we were leaving G&S. We just couldn’t tell anyone, which was actually really hard because every single notable name was at that contest.
I guess that impossible sequence was a little after that, but I do remember that day. That was a big trip for me, like one of those moments where I started to feel like I was getting some notoriety and whatnot. I was turning pro and shooting a Tracker ad. It felt good… and I didn’t even have a board out yet. I think it was almost seven months from the start of Workshop that my board finally came out.
That sequence definitely took a while. Not a ridiculous amount of time, but there was some wasted film, for sure. That was the big thing at the time: You had to shoot sequences. And I might’ve thrown a little stress in his face at one point, but I was determined to get it. That was a killer trick at the time.
What was your process with filming Memory Screen? Did you always know that it would ultimately lean towards this artsy presentation?
Well, in watching Footage the other day, you can almost see the direct line from that to Memory Screen. You could see that’s where it was going. I mean, there are elements of Memory Screen throughout Footage, and we knew Memory Screen would largely be a continuation of that, in Hill’s style. Rob and I were just so focused on the skateboarding part of it, you know? It was such a big deal, because it was a brand-new company and we were the new pros. But no, Hill didn’t really talk too much about the concepts with us. He just likes to do his thing.
I filmed my part with Carter and Hill… and sometimes Blender. I remember all three of them taking a trip to New Orleans one time and us getting some things.
Were you on the road for a lot of that as well? Because there are some incredible spots in there, and more than a few that have never been seen again.
I know! There’s some Baton Rouge in there. Some New Orleans stuff… And because I grew up in a neighboring unincorporated town called Metairie, which is right across the parish line from New Orleans, we ended up filming at a lot of our spots there because we were young and couldn’t always make it into the city. But Hill and Carter always liked that. They enjoyed going to spots that nobody else was at, because especially back then, you always saw the same spots in every video. Always the same bank, always the same ledges. Always in California. They wanted our video to be different. They liked that more “down home” vibe, which also fit into the concept of the video as well. Because you had Scott and Bo in St. Petersburg skating spots that nobody had seen, same thing with Rob in Ohio.
I can’t remember if there is any California footage in my Memory Screen part. I don’t think there is, which is amazing.
But how long did you film for that? Because Bo complained about his part being old… but that just might be Bo being Bo.
Right. No clue. I mean, there was definitely footage in their parts from when Rob and I went down there earlier on. I do a fakie ollie-fakie nosegrind on that short handrail.
Your last clip.
Yeah, I’m wearing an ankle brace there because I fucked up my ankle. I couldn’t do anything going forward because it was still hurting, so I did that fakie. And then I remember talking a Greyhound Bus all the way back to New Orleans.
There might’ve been some older footage of them in there, too, but there was definitely more recent stuff.
…Actually, now that I think about, I think I know where he’s coming from. What happened is that we all filmed our parts and then there was that last section, like a montage? That was filmed days before they edited it into the video. Because that video took a couple of weeks to edit and then they were saying it was finished. Rob and I were both like, “No, we have all these new tricks that we want to film real quick for the video!”
There really wasn’t some strict deadline. And when it comes to something like that, they’re not going to tell us no.
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| yep. |
That makes sense, because you have 360 late-shuvs and nollie nosebluntslides in that section. I feel like those tricks came a little later than the other stuff.
Exactly, because there were a lot of those pivotal moments back then. It usually had to do with someone in the upper echelon doing something and the rest of us going, “Holy fuck!”
…and then everyone on tier below really starts to lean into it. That’s kinda how it was back then. Like when Gonz does a nosebluntslide on a curb, everybody else then rushes out to start doing it, too.
Tricks were starting to change a little bit, and I just happened to be in Ohio at the time. That was the summer I was living there, so I got lucky in the sense that I could go out and film with Hill real quick. Bo and Scott didn’t have that. It wasn’t anything intentional against them, we just happened to be there.
Was “Budge” your choice? I mean, it does work perfectly with that gap-to-boardslide opener.
(laughs) It really does. That was in Dayton at this old ice hockey rink. Whenever it wasn’t ice hockey season, they’d bring out all of these ramps so people could skate. Super fun.
I just wanted a Dinosaur Jr. song. That was my thing. I feel like “Budge”, in particular, came from Hill and Blender. Hill was the one doing most of the editing. He was really into the music and how it worked overall with the footage. That was very important to him, clearly.
But yeah, from what I can remember, I think I just left it to them.
I’ve always loved your slow-mo 540 ollie on that bank… but I gotta ask, is that a make?
I think so. Maybe I wheelbit or something? Because I know that happened again with another clip, the ollie frontside big spin over the trash can.
Yeah, that one cuts really quick.
It does. I might’ve rolled two or three feet on that one, and then whatever. I’d been trying it for a little while, and at the time, it was like, “How many times are you going to film this?”
“Aw, fuck it. I don’t care.”
Two months later, I was able to land it much better but the video was already out by then, obviously.
But yeah, for that 540 ollie clip, I guess my body is really twisting there.
You could clearly do it, but I always wondered about that clip as you’re twirling around pretty good in that one.
You know what? I think I remember why now. I’m skating Blender’s board there. It’s my model, but it was Blender’s setup. We had just gone to the K-Zoo Skate Zoo in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Because there’s that footage where I’m wearing the Charlotte Hornets hat and shirt. That was the day.
We left there, and I had changed shirts for the ride back to Dayton, but on the way home, we came across that bank in Michigan somewhere. The problem was I had forgot my board back at the K-Zoo Skate Zoo, so I ended up borrowing Blender’s board to get that trick, and he rode way looser trucks than me. I remember stepping on it and thinking to myself, “I can’t fucking skate this board” even though it was my deck. The wheels were bigger, too.
…I’m gonna blame it on that. I’ll blame it on Neil’s board. (laughs)
(laughs) What about that ollie over the shopping cart, filmed from the inside?
I nosebonked there. That was a nosebonk, not that you can tell. And that’s the kind of thing they’d do that people would be bummed on, because you couldn’t really see what the trick was.
I’ve thought it was an ollie since 1991.
(laughs) Right? But it looked so cool, I didn’t even care.
Who filmed that?
I want to say Hill but it might’ve been Blender. They had very similar mindsets when it came to filming and wanting to capture something different. I’m pretty sure it was Hill, though. Sorry if it was you, Neil.
Do you remember any tricks taking an especially long time in that part? Or was that even allowed back then?
Yeah, that was just starting to happen in videos... filming tricks that clearly took a long time to get. It was certainly never discouraged for Memory Screen, but for me, personally, I was just never the type of skateboarder to do that. I’m not trying to make this out like I was so consistent, but there really wasn’t anything in that part that took very long. Maybe I’d just lose interest after a while? I’m not really sure.
That short little kickflip nose manual in there wasn’t easy. Those weren’t very common at the time. I’d say that one took me a while but nothing else in there really took more than 20 minutes.
What about the eyes being projected on your face?
That was in this weird hotel down in Louisiana. Pretty sure some gnarly shit has gone done in that place… then and now. (laughs)
Okay, it wasn’t that bad. But they all stayed at that spot when they came down to New Orleans for Memory Screen. There’s another shot of me wearing a bucket hat with Rob and it’s our reflections in the pool? That was shot right outside the room.
The eyes was just another thing that Hill set up real quick. He was always doing that kinda stuff. It’s just what he did.
He had the projector with him?
He did, actually! Because that was film! He filmed my eyes with Super 8 at some point… it couldn’t have been on that trip because he would’ve had to get it developed. But he had this footage of my eyes and brought his projector along with him in the car from Ohio. He set up his projector in the room and had me lean against the wall, projecting the footage of my eyes onto my eyes.
So yeah, I have footage in both video parts of me doing weird stuff in hotel rooms. (laughs)
And the “Cajun-like style” guy isn’t even you?
No, that was taken from a tape that was kinda like this Vietnamese guy’s diary. Not many people know this, but there’s a huge Vietnamese population in New Orleans. One of the biggest outside of Vietnam. And the guy was actually a student. I don’t know if he had come over from Vietnam to live with family members or what… because that is very common. People coming over to stay with family who are already established here. That’s not just special to New Orleans, either. That’s the United States, in general.
The tape is him talking about his experiences in New Orleans and what the city is like, having come from a different country. Blender just happened to find the tape somewhere. And here’s something I never caught until recently, there’s audio from that same tape in Footage!
I always thought Blender found that tape while he was here filming for the Workshop, which would make sense. But now, none of it makes sense. Because in Footage, and I don’t remember which part it’s in, but there’s audio of the same guy and it’s what he says leading up to the stuff that’s in Memory Screen! I only noticed it the other day when I rewatched Footage with my son and it blew me away. I knew that there are all these threads that go from Footage to Memory Screen, but I never noticed that one!
And he just found it lying in a parking lot?
I remember him saying that he found it on the street, like on a curbside. He very well could’ve found it in a thrift store, but I don’t think so. Neil does like to create a world of mystery, especially back then, but I don’t think this would’ve been something he’d lie about.
Again, we’ll go with the legend.
Incredible. But did you know that lawnmowing footy was gonna make it into your part? I mean, you’re just trying to mow your yard there.
(laughs) Absolutely not, but that’s what they’d do. They’d always film non-skating stuff with the Super 8 camera in an almost documentary-style. Constantly, as much as they could. And it makes sense because you wouldn’t want to waste all that film trying to get skate footage, you know? Just to probably not get anything.
Hill, maybe Carter, and yes Blender were all into this “This is America” thing, but specifically, the America you don’t see. Like, here’s a professional skateboarder cutting his grass in New Orleans. That’s real. Real people. Because in New Orleans, you’re mowing your yard constantly due to the climate. It’s just what you do. Everyone does. It’s about as normal as you could possibly get… because Alien wasn’t interested in making superstars.
Remember the building demolition? The scene right before my part where they blow up that building? Don’t Mean Maybe is the song… I actually met those dudes in Ohio one time. Super nice guys. But that building implode, I remember being on a trip and Neil leaving early to specifically go back and film that demolition on Super 8. That was his thing. It was his important to him. And that’s what I mean, there was such a dedication to art and capturing this stuff. At the time, I was just kinda going along with it, but once I saw everything in the video, I understood why.
I didn’t realize he shot that. I just thought it was found footage.
And “Lungfish”? That guy walking down the street? I feel like that’s the sort of thing that Neil moved out to Ohio for, beyond just the Workshop. Midwest normality, even if it was a little different. The type of beauty that can come out of that.
Tell me about your first time seeing Memory Screen.
I’ll go on record in saying the first time I ever watched Memory Screen, I was on acid. Only half a hit, Thomas Morgan took the other half, but it fucking blew my mind. Not because I was on acid, it’s not like I flying out of my mind or anything. I was just floored by the video. It was one of those times where I couldn’t believe I was part of something like that.
Because up to that point, videos were always trick-trick-trick-trick... and I loved those videos, too. I loved it all, but Memory Screen just felt so fucking special. It’s such an expression of Mike and Neil and Carter. It was all of these things, and it was true. It was art. Wow, I am a piece of this art.
There really is nothing like it, especially at that time.
No… and people fucking hated it! A lot of people fucking hated it back then, like, “What the fuck is this artsy bullshit!?”
They just didn’t get it, which is common with art. Whatever. I always thought it was amazing.
Following the mixed reception of Memory Screen, did you have any offers to possibly dip elsewhere?
Black Label was one.
Really?
Yeah, but this was right at the beginning of the Workshop. After word had gotten out that Rob, Neil, Claar and I were leaving G&S, Lucero called my house one day in Louisiana. Completely out of the blue, and I still have no idea how he got my number. It certainly wasn’t from Sarge. But he goes, “Hey, I know you guys left G&S to start this new company, but I wanted to call and see if you possibly wanted to ride for Black Label?”
I mean, he’s John Lucero. He’s fairly confident. And he did make sure to point out that Black Label was an established company and if I were to ride for him, they could provide me with this and that.
I said that I appreciated him calling me and that I was honored he’d even think of me, but I was already dedicated to this Workshop thing. I remember him kinda chuckling when I said that, which I didn’t really know how to take, and he goes, “Well, if it doesn’t work out…”, like maybe he wasn’t expecting it to? I don’t know.
…and I get it. It was this whole new thing.
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| the alien workshop, 1991 |
I mean, on paper, it does seem like quite the long shot, especially during that time in the industry.
Oh, absolutely. The whole thing sounds insane if you really think about it. I just thought that call was kinda weird. But that’s the only board sponsor that comes to mind. After Memory Screen came out, even though some people complained about it being weird, the video did help establish Alien Workshop as a real company in people’s eyes. It was no longer just an art project at that point.
I mean, there was always talk, but it never felt all that serious. I guess people just thought I was a weirdo, which made me a perfect fit for the Workshop. That’s where I belong. (laughs)
We were family, man. I’ve always felt like Carter and Hill are my big brothers. They’re eight and ten years older than I am, which is sibling territory right there. So yeah, I’ve always had a strong connection with them. Leaving was never really an option for me.
My all-time favorite graphic: Tell me everything you can about the Olives.
(laughs) So, Neil is always sketching, right? That’s what he does. Constantly sketching and doodling. And honestly, I’m not 100% sure if he actually made it for me, specifically. I’m not aware of Neil ever making an illustration or drawing specifically for a board at that time. Likely, it was probably just lying around.
Knowing Neil for however many years now, I would say he probably just sketched it at random and Mike pulled it from wherever, concepting it into a graphic. Mike was always good at that. And then they proposed it to me. I was super stoked to have my first graphic be drawn by Neil. After all, the first board I ever wanted was Coffee Break. The mail order place just happened to be out of them, so I got a G&S Foil Tail instead.
So there is all that for me, and obviously, I really love the graphic. Beyond any of the personal symbolism, it really does look great.
It’s amazing.
Yeah, there’s just something about it. Super minimal and simple, but it works. It doesn’t say skateboarding at all.
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| credit: disposable |
Not in the slightest. Were there possibly any special meanings behind some of your graphics over the years? Like that “Fox” slick, for example? Maybe the matchstick man and even all the anteater stuff?
Yes. The fox came about because I got really into learning about wolves at one point. It’s actually become a running theme for me. I have a wolf tattoo on my leg, and a song title from my last full-length album came from a documentary about wolves that live on St. Ellesmere Island… which is actually the same wolfpack that got me so interested back then. It’s just this weird thread that I got super into. So, of course, I’m like, “I want a wolf graphic!”
I talk to Hill about it and he ends up coming back with something a little later. He says, “I came up with this fox, because I think the red and white lend itself better to that more abstract kind of look.”
“Yeah, but it’s a fucking fox!” (laughs)
I'm like, “It’s not even a wolf! No! That’s not even the same thing! Not at all!”
But I’m a pretty easygoing guy, you know? After a while, I’m just like, “Alright, we can go with the fox... But what the fuck!?!” (laughs)
Hill even tried to rationalize with me, which he would normally never do. He’s like, “Yeah, but it looks killer on a deck with the colors and everything!”
I just went with it. “Yeah, it does. It does.”
The anteater stuff was really of no relevance to me, but the matchstick was. I don’t know if Hill created that specifically for me, but he said he did. At one point, those guys thought I was a bit of a pyro. Not that I set anybody’s property on fire, let’s get that clear. But for whatever reason, I just had a fascination with fire. I mean, Blender’s nickname for me back then was “Pyre Tire”. So, Hill made that graphic and said it was perfect for me.
“Fuck yeah, dude.”
How lucrative was a pro career back then? Because weren’t you going to college and delivering pizzas at this point, too?
Well, I was going to a community college for a little bit… because yeah, at the time, skateboarding paid shit. Straight up. And that was through no fault of the Workshop, that’s just how it was. I think the first check I ever got was $150, and that was with my olive board. It was a real eyeopener. Things did start to improve once shoe sponsors became a thing. That’s where a lot of the money came from. Still is, I guess.
I started doing the pizza thing about a year after I turned pro. A full year! So, it wasn’t some transitional thing where I was just starting out, we had already put out Memory Screen and my first pro board by that point. Because I’d also just graduated high school and got my own apartment, I had to get a job in order to pay my bills, which weren’t even all that high. I was actually living with an ex at the time, so everything was split down the middle and I still had to deliver pizzas… not that I was sad about needing to have a job or anything. I’m not really driven by money at all. It was just the reality of the situation.
I’ve had this conversation a few times, and my joke for whenever this comes up is always, “Nah, I got out just in time, right before all that money came in. Whew, that was a close one.”
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| photo: mosberg |
(laughs) And you did stay in Louisiana for several years after turning pro, which would’ve been much cheaper than California.
Yeah, and that’s probably the one regret I have in skateboarding. I should’ve moved to California as soon as I got out of high school.
I was gonna ask if you felt like that handicapped your career at all… even though it seemed to work for Workshop riders.
Well, Rob moved out there right away. Rob, John Drake and Kelly Bird all lived together in Encinitas at first, and then when I decided to move out there, we all got a place together down in San Diego proper. I just called them up one day, like, “I’m moving out.”
But yes, that’s my one thing. My one regret. It doesn’t bum me out now, but I do think about that decision sometimes. Not that I’m unhappy with how everything panned out, but that will always be one of those great what-ifs for me.
One thing in all this is that I had a large group of friends in New Orleans that were not really skateboarders. They were more into music, and I started playing music around this time, too. It’s all kind of the same culture, more or less, but I found myself being drawn more into that world and those relationships. I feel like that factored in pretty heavily with my decision to stay and will also serve as foreshadowing with what was to come… as music would eventually take over that creative part of my brain. My obsessive, creative brain.
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| photo: spike |
The inevitable conclusion, but before we get there: how’d that one-foot photo of you with Spike come about? Always loved that one.
That’s my favorite photo, actually.
I had gone out to stay with Jeremy Klein over Thanksgiving break that year. Spike, Jeremy and I all went out and did some shooting, and I love how that photo came out because it’s so different. Shooting real low like that with the shadow on the wall? I don’t know of too many other photos likes that... And then we got burritos afterwards.
This was pre-Birdhouse but it was clearly in the works. I remember Hawk coming by to pick us up one day and taking us to the Powell training facility. I ended up hurting my foot in, like, three minutes and couldn’t skate for the rest of the day. Great. (laughs)
And that noseblunt photo of you at Cleary Banks with the flares behind it?
Oh yeah, that’s a good one, too. That and the Spike photo really capture the type of skating I enjoy the most.
I honestly don’t remember too much about that one. I believe Jamie Mosberg shot that. Mouse. He was an ex-pro, right? He shot my pro spotlight, too. Memory’s a little cloudy on this one, but that’s the Cleary Banks on Cleary Street and Veterans in Metairie. That was a big spot for me over the years. A totally non-sensational spot that you skate growing up because that’s all you have.
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| photo: mosberg |
Did you like filming and shooting photos or were you one of those “camera shy” dudes?
It wasn’t my favorite, no. I never liked the pressure I instantly felt whenever a camera came out.
I’ll tell you this: There is a parallel to that with playing music and recording. It’s a known thing. I’ve actually talked to a few people about it. Take a guitarist, for example. You can listen to them play something for hours and it's perfect, but as soon as you hit “record”, they immediately start fucking up. Same thing with skateboarding. Oh, you’re doing a trick that you’ve done how many times before? Let’s try and film it. As soon as that camera comes out… boom, there’s a dick in your face!
(laughs) That’s amazing. And so true.
(laughs) I know that’s a bit crass and I feel a little silly having said it, but it’s true! As soon as you start trying to film something, you just can’t concentrate anymore. It’s so immature and stupid, but when you’re a young skateboarder, that’s the only way to put it.
Get that fuckin’ dick out of my face! (laughs)
I love this.
And that’s why I didn’t like filming and shooting as much, because it never felt natural to me. I enjoy the flow of skateboarding and being inside my own head… my own world. When I go to the skatepark now, it’s always in the morning and there’s rarely anybody else there. It’s just me. Sure, I’ll prop up a phone to film, but that’s way different than having someone else there filming me. It’s not distracting at all.
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| photo: sherman |
I’ve always felt the same way. Alright, so Bird, Rob and Drake all move down to San Diego as you finally relocate from Louisiana, aren’t you and Drake sharing a room in the basement?
Well, it was a first floor-kind of thing. One of those places where you walk in and either go up the stairs to the living room or downstairs to our room.
As the guy who once called H-Street “Too Hollywood”, how did you like living in Southern California?
(laughs) Did I say that?
Yep.
So funny. I think I was speaking more to the industry bullshit side of it there, like we talked about earlier. It was no disrespect to H-Street. In the G&S days, I used to always go over to the H-Street House whenever I was in San Diego. I actually thought H-Street was super cool… even if it was a little Hollywood at times. (laughs)
Later on, when it came to living in the Workshop House down there, I loved it. I had never really lived outside of Louisiana before, except for that year or so in Florida, but I loved living in San Diego. Having visited there numerous times already, I knew what I was getting into. I really dug the whole vibe there, beyond just the skateboarding side of it.
Skateboarding-wise, San Diego was interesting for me because we immediately had this insular thing going. I mean, it was “The Workshop House” after all. I drove by myself in my Honda CRX for three days from New Orleans, blasting the Melvins, the Minutemen and Dinosaur Jr the whole way through. And I literally pulled up to the Workshop House as Bird, Rob and Drake arrived. Just as they were moving in, I couldn’t have timed it any better.
I basically moved directly into our own little bubble, which was pretty rad. It was already set up and everything. But shortly afterwards, I found myself already starting to shy away from that whole world. Because of my time in New Orleans at particular stage in my life, I felt like I was starting to get interested in different things than those guys. Like, they were all super into hip-hop while I was going to Pantera shows with Ozzy Alvarez. I was so into guitar-based music at the time that I was having a hard time having those two worlds coexist… which was my own issue, for sure.
I started going out by myself a lot, to different record stores or whatever. Exploring the city on my own to find the San Diego for me. Because, again, I wasn’t sure if I shared a lot of common interests with those guys. Looking back, there definitely seemed to be a bit of a disconnect, and it’s nothing against those guys at all. I was just changing.
Well, Timecode Alien definitely feels a little different than it did during the Memory Screen era, at least from the outside. To your point, there was way more hip-hop going on than Dinosaur Jr.
I see that to an extent, but I also know Hill was very resistant to putting hip-hop in Workshop videos. It was just that time when riders were being given more say, and that’s what they were into… which is rad. Everyone should have their projects reflect who they are.
It wasn’t just the Workshop, I feel like skateboard culture as a whole had changed, and it didn’t feel so much like me anymore. Later on, I feel like it got a little more diverse and there was a place for people who liked guitar-based music in skateboarding again. But for a while in the mid-90s, I feel like there wasn’t. It was either hardcore metal dudes, which tended to be vert riders. Metalers, I guess. Crazy aggro dudes like Tas Pappas and Danny Way.
Yeah, lots of Slayer and Metallica.
Exactly. You had those dudes, and everybody else skated street and listened to hip hop. That was pretty much it. And for myself, who always had that outcast/loner kinda vibe going on, I felt disconnected in a way.
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| photo: dawes |
I think people forget how homogenized skating got in the mid-90s. Everybody looked the same and did the same tricks… and to your point, listened to the same music.
I think you’re right, and I think that’s what a lot of this was for me. I don’t want this to sound insulting, but it became less individualistic. If you go back to the early 90s and even the late 80s, there were way more people with their own distinct style. I’m not saying that different styles didn’t exist in the mid-90s, but prior to that, I feel a group of skaters could all be hitting the same obstacle and everyone would be doing different tricks. Barge at will. I don’t think you had that as much in the mid-90s.
Fred Gall and Josh Kalis joined the squad at this point. Could that have added to the disconnect, as it had been such a tight knit group prior? Although, I guess Josh just lived across the street.
From the Workshop house? Shit, I don’t even remember that. You know why? I really wasn’t hanging out there much. I was hanging out with other people. But yeah, I remember Jamie Thomas being, like, two houses down.
I do remember when Kalis got on, it was at a tradeshow. Rob scouted him. I can’t really remember how Gall got on, but none of that ever made me feel strange at all. I just saw it as everything was evolving and skateboarding was changing. The company was changing. Like you said, ’94 Workshop versus ’91 Workshop is very different. Even the graphics felt less handmade, more graphic design-y.
What was your experience with Lennie Kirk? Because he’s gone on record saying you freaked him out in San Diego, but you’ve said that he freaked you out in San Francisco later on. What’s that all about?
Yeah, there was a weird situation in San Francisco. My band was on tour and I was walking down the street, and there he was. He’s like, “Duane!”
“Woah.”
I knew that he’d been having a hard time after the accident. I think he might’ve even been homeless for a minute or something? I just remember us going into a McDonalds and he was all over the map. He was already well into his preaching by then. I think he was even preaching at that tradeshow I just spoke about when Kalis got on. I remember him preaching and having this, like, minion guy who would follow him around.
How would I have freaked him out? I think we were at a party and there may have been some acid involved. I think we were listening to the Butthole Surfers’ version of “Hurdy Gurdy Man” and I was feeling it. Getting all weird. You know, just being a weirdo and I guess it freaked him out… as he would later go on to a whole other level of weird. Because he wasn’t just on some “listening to psychedelic music while on drugs” weird, he was bible-thumbing preaching in a McDonalds weird. That is really something. And by that point in San Francisco, I wasn’t doing acid anymore, so I’m really just thinking to myself, “What the fuck is wrong with this dude?”
…But I like that I freaked him out, though. That’s funny.
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| photo: swift |
You had a backside 50-50 and an unreleased backsmith on a flat rail around this time. Was that your last photo shoot?
I think so. That was with Swift in Hillcrest, where I had found a record store that I really liked. That’s probably why I suggested to shoot there.
Recently, my son went to a week-long skateboard camp at our local park, put on by Plus Skateshop. On the last day, the guy who runs the shop, Rob, had a microphone and was calling each kid’s name to come up and give them a “Certificate of Completion”, some stickers, and this little ’zine they had made. Because for each week-long session, they make their own ’zine and every kid gets their own page with photos and stuff. Just to add a touch of that skateboard DIY culture in there, you know?
So, I’m standing right beside Rob as I film my son. And as he hands my son the ’zine, Rob points to the cover and it’s a drawing of a skateboarder, really minimal. Rob looks at me and goes, “Duane, does that look familiar?”
It was a drawing of me doing that back 50-50. Nothing over the top or anything, but one of those things where if you knew, you knew. And it was totally one of those Dad moments, where you’re just like, “Man…”
Rob said he likes to do something special like that with these projects every week. And for that one, he went on online, got the photo and sketched it out. Turned out pretty cool.
I had to point it out to my son, like, “Bud, that’s Dad.”
“What? That’s on the cover of everyone’s zine?”
Because that was his first time seeing the ‘zine completed. He was beaming… and I’ll admit that I got a little choked up, too. (laughs)
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| photo: swift (published 2009) |
Super rad. But when did retirement become an option? That this was beyond a temporary burnout, it was actually permanent.
Well, back then, you had what were called “minimum payments”. It’s where you got a certain amount every month and if your board sold beyond that, you got the bigger amount. Basically, I’d just been living off those minimums. I’d skate a little… but not really. And after a while, Sarge was just like, “Dude, you gotta skate.”
“I know, I know…”
And we did that for six months or so.
The thing is that I never really thought about retirement, because I was still skateboarding a little throughout all of this. Not that I was taking advantage, it just became normal for me. It was the path of least resistance: I’m on the Workshop, I’m getting paid, and I’m gonna skateboard a little. I just didn’t take it seriously.
Finally, Sarge calls me up one day. He starts it off with, “You know what this phone call is, right?”
“Yep.” (laughs)
“I get it, dude. You’re just not into it anymore and that’s totally cool. You’re passionate about the things you do and music is that thing now. I respect that. And we’re going to give you six months of retirement pay.”
Wow, never heard of “retirement pay” before.
Yeah, it was amazing! And that was their way, because they knew. I mean, we’d been doing this since we were teenagers. This was Sarge’s way of doing it right, because he knew I would have no idea how to feed myself if I was just let go. Done. He knew that I didn’t come from any money, and we both knew it was time. My heart just wasn’t in it anymore. But it’s weird, because that call was the first time “retirement” had even popped into my head.
…And for years after that, I’ve always had people telling me, “You know you can do both things, right? Music and skateboarding.”
“You’re not me!” (laughs)
Did you have to move out of the house or did he let you stay there for a little while, too?
Oh, I had already moved out of the Alien House by then. I only lived in that house for 10 months or so. I moved to San Diego in March of ’94 and was already out and living with other friends by January of ’95, so there was a good couple of years in-between there.
Did you know about that “Ode to Pitre” part in Timecode beforehand?
Yeah, they told me that they were gonna do that.
I think they just wanted to include some footage of the little bit of skating I was doing, which I appreciated. I was stoked on that. It felt like a proper farewell, having been part of the Workshop since day one.
There’s a proper kickflip backtail, but was that basically the extent of your filming for Timecode?
You know what’s funny? I can’t even remember that thing. I have the VHS right over there, but I probably haven’t watched it since the video came out. I know there’s footage of my ferret in there.
I don’t remember filming much of anything for Timecode. That was probably just some footage they had. They made me that part because that’s who they are. I mean, I was texting with Carter just the other day. Like I said, we’re family.
Did you keep up with everything the Workshop was doing after your retirement?
I was aware, but not too deep. I was already occupied with what I was doing, but a little bit here and there. I remember stopping by to visit in Ohio while on tour one time. So yeah, I would check in briefly, but it’s not like I was getting the new issue of Thrasher or whatever. I checked out of skateboarding almost entirely for a while there.
How did you get involved with Mind Field?
Well, I was living in New York at the time when Greg Hunt reached out to me one day, like, “Hey, we’re making a new video and I’d love to use some of your music. It’s been a long time since you popped up in a Workshop video, I think your inclusion would be very meaningful.”
I guess he could see the connection with the music I was making and the style of video he was wanting to make. And I was down, absolutely.
I think that was my first time meeting Greg and it ended up working out great. It was music that I’d already recorded, so the whole thing was pretty easy, and I was stoked on how it came out. Then he went on to help with visuals for some of my live performances. He’s originally from Ann Arbor, which is only about 20 minutes from where I live now.
What were your thoughts on Mind Field and all its homages to previous Workshop videos?
Yeah, I can’t remember the exact conversations I had with Greg back then, but he said there would be touchbacks to Memory Screen, for sure. He wanted it to be a reflection, at times, to the beginning of the Workshop. That general vibe. He wanted to pull from that rich history, not for nostalgia’s sake but as a way of celebrating it.
I haven’t watched that one in a long time, either, but I do remember seeing J skating in there with Omar and thinking to myself, “Wow, that is amazing… but why the fuck couldn’t that have been me skating with J Mascis back in the day!” (laughs)
I mean that lightheartedly, of course… but man! The one time I met J was super awkward. I was young and didn’t really know what to say. I’m like, “Hey, I’m Duane and I’m on the Alien Workshop” and this and that…
He’s like, “Okay… cool.” (laughs)
But it ended up working out. In 2011, as my Feel Free album was coming out, the guy running the label was like, “What if we did a deck for it with Alien Workshop?”
“I don’t know. I can get in touch with them, but I’m not sure.”
So, I hit up Hill and he’s immediately like, “Yeah, dude.” No questions asked, and it came out so good. It’s the same artwork that I have on the album cover, but it looks even better on a board. Hill did the layout. We sent him the rough Illustrator files and he put it together himself. It looks amazing.
In the Workshop catalog for that season, there was a spread with me and the board on one side, and a picture of J with his Dinosaur Jr. boards on the other. Talk about a full-circle moment, and I’m sure they did that on purpose. I was so honored.
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| rob and duane doubles |
Didn’t you talk Dyrdek into using “The Lung”?
I’m not sure, because he really wasn’t a big music guy back then. Like, I remember him skating to Led Zeppelin in his NSA contest run back then. He liked music, but was still kinda ambivalent about it. He really didn’t get super into music until later on. I don’t remember that about “The Lung”, but I don’t think he was too into it at the time…
I will tell you this story, my now wife and I went to go see J Mascis + The Fog in Brooklyn back in 2007 or so. They ended up playing “The Lung”, and by that point, I probably hadn’t talked to Rob in about a year... I remember he was telling me the concept for his show. But they started playing his song so I call him and got his voicemail, so I just let it play on his voicemail. When I talk to him afterwards, he’s just like “Awwww….”, almost like he was mocking me. I actually kinda hurt my feelings!
“Awwww… how sweet?”
I remember thinking to myself, “Damn, dude! We were like brothers back in the day. What the fuck?”
It kinda spun me out, you know? Not that he meant to… I just don’t think he liked “The Lung”, that’s what I’m getting at. (laughs)
It worked perfectly, though.
Oh yeah, I can’t think of another song for that part.
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photo: hill |
How would you describe the Workshop’s impact on you creatively?
Oh, I think they had a profound influence on me back then. Specifically, not to base whatever you’re doing on anything exterior, and that goes for anything, whether it’s art, skateboarding, music or whatever. You need to take pride in wearing that cloak of the outsider. That kind of thing.
Just from being around those guys and observing them. It’s the same way an older brother or sister influences their younger sibling, even if it’s as simple as introducing them to their record collection. Because Alien Workshop has such a close connection to music, like Dinosaur Jr. or Neil’s past bands. It all felt so connected to me. Not to say that all the music I’ve made is directly connected to the Workshop, but it is an ongoing thread, especially as I started getting more into experimental music and what I release under my own name. Very much.
Do you think your musical output would be the same today if it wasn’t for your experience with those guys back then?
I don’t think so. And the funny thing is the type of experimental music I make, I don’t think those guys are really all that into... not that they haven’t liked some things here or there. It’s not even about that. It’s more of an ethos or a mindset we share.
Look at Memory Screen and how that was created. How untraditional that was, versus anything in skateboarding at that time. But that video would go on to really influence how I would go about putting together music. Because when something is degraded and fucked up like that, it’s beautiful. Like Scott’s part… which he hated at the time. I’d love to know if he still feels that way. (laughs)
I noticed you posted a 50-50 the other day at your park. Cool to see you back on your board again.
Yeah, since my son got into skateboarding, I’ve been having a little fun with it, too. I probably hadn’t skated in 14 years or so.
That 50-50 was the first thing where I had eye’d out something I wanted to do… and I couldn’t do it! Turns out that there’s a quite a difference in trying to pick this all back up again when you’re 50! But once it started flowing, I decided that I was gonna 50-50 this fucking ledge over and over again until I’m sick of it, and I ended up doing it 10 times in a row. But what’s funny is how particular I still am with it, even after all these years of not even touching a board. I had to get it exactly the way I wanted, going back into the bank and not out onto the flat part… because fuck that! (laughs)
Have you shown your son Memory Screen?
I showed him a little bit of it on YouTube a while back, but he was never drawn to skateboarding until recently. So yeah, I got the VCR and I’m gonna show it to him at some point, it just hasn’t happened yet... I guess he’s been too busy playing MineCraft. I hope he has enough interest to watch his old Dad skateboard in the video that completely changed his life.
(laughs) Alright, Duane. I can’t thank you enough for doing all this, man. It’s been a real treat. I have one last question for you: Do you even like olives?
I do. (laughs)
Okay, good.
And what’s really funny? My kids have absolutely loved olives since they were babies. They will eat an entire fucking jar of them. Actually, my daughter loves to do this thing where she puts a bunch of olives on her fingers and says “Olive fingers!”
She just did it the other night and I love it. Best of all, she has no idea the significance.
